Will Conservatism Recover?

Also, people don't generally claim to currently have a baby. They use future tense generally (e.g., "We are going to have a baby.").

 

I don't think people generally buy products for the fetus at Target. Those products are generally for after the baby is born. Fetuses don't consume many products from retailers. Mostly, food and nutrients. People usually don't put those on lists to purchase.

 

I can partially agree. There are politicians from both parties who use the issue for election purposes.

 

So you have never heard of the old wives tale of not telling anyone until some point in the pregnancy because it’s bad luck? I have heard people say in the first trimester and the quickening.

 

Really?

Your wife ever say:
"Hey babe look...the fetus is kicking!"

She sends her friends texts that say:
"Good news from my checkup today, the doctor said the fetus heart rate looks great!"

If so, she is in a vast minority as I have never heard any woman say that.

 

Of course I've heard that, but it isnt the norm. We waited until about 8 weeks for our three, which is what most of our friends did as well.

But even then, is It a baby or not after the quickening?

 

So do you regularly celebrate conception day with your kids? Because, if so, you are in a vast minority, as I have never seen somebody do that.

 

Here's the solution, but it was abandoned a couple decades ago. If all the political efforts were put into a hearts-and-minds campaign like this one, you'd save a lot more babies.



Again, accept choice, but focus on making the right one. As a lifetime Pro-Choice voter, I think this is a message women in that situation need to hear. The problem, of course, is politics sticking its head into a personal situation. This is why, outside of egregious things like Jim Crow, government needs to stay out of social issues.

 

No. Where did I imply that? I think that if using a Biblical perspective there are certainly questions of conception. I just grow really tired of this new attempt to act like we dont call it a baby in the womb and to talk down to someone for doing so on a message board

We all call ita baby...long before we ever see it.
And that includes doctors. One of whom delivered my 2nd child in Gator scrubs after completing med school at UF years ago.

She always called it a baby as did all 3 doctors that delivered our kids.

 

And that's the problem and why we can't have an adult conversation about this. Or anything else for that matter. Being a divisive scumbag is too politically profitable.

 

And I grow tired of people pretending that there isn't a difference before and after birth. It is an attempt to emotionally browbeat people for recognizing a difference that we all recognize in numerous contexts.

 

Are you okay with killing children if their fathers are rapists? If the woman decides to have her rapist's baby and then kills it six months after it was born due to the trauma of the rape, should that be legal?

 

Embryos and fetuses have no rights. They are not persons. I think we all agree that women are persons who are entitled to equal citizenship, right?

 

I think if a woman gets pregnant thru rape, abortion should be an option.

 

You keep mentioning 'equal citizenship' but men shouldn't be allowed to kill unborn babies either.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/health/maternal-infant-death-abortion-access/index.html

You have zero rights until you are born. With that said, up util 20- 24 weeks it is not a viable entity. Roe kept it limited to 24 weeks, past that it was against the law. Timeline? up to 24 weeks.

It might not have been the "goal", but we apparently didn't learn from history and now women are paying the price. Their goal is to raise our population for more workers because this generation is saying no to having kids. It's to control women. The heritage foundation also wants to do away with contraception and tweeted about not allowing sex, even between a married couple, unless it is to procreate. They also would do away with women's right to vote and no fault divorce. You wonder why most American's don't want this??

 

Yes, but if you saying that a fetus is something less than a born human, then the rights would shift to the born human (mother). Again, this is why the Pro-Life movement has never really had a solid position on abortion. FWIW, we are finally (due to the USSC decision) starting to see more detailed positions and we're also seeing why they never took these positions in the past.

This is why you always have to look at how these things will be implemented, enforced, etc. beforehand rather than riding an emotional wave and baying at the moon.

 

Why does the means of conception matter if we're talking about a human life?

 

What point are you trying to make with this question? What does it have to do with my point?

 

I think that blows up your entire argument that fetuses or embryos are "children." I'm glad you do support exceptions, but you're not making an intellectually honest argument when you simultaneously try to paint abortion as child killing while also supporting that exception.

We both recognize that the "unborn" are not the same as born children. Where we disagree is in matters of degree.

That's like saying, "Heterosexual couples shouldn't be able to get gay married either!" or "Miscegenation is illegal for white couples too!"