Why not do business with another baker?

The person who did this is an idiot, but the argument you're making would hold just as true for Black people just finding another hotel or restaurant when segregationists told them they couldn't eat at theirs. Yet, we have the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for a reason.

 

Why not bake the cake instead of being a big baby?

 

It seems as if you've missed the point

 

Looks like you've missed the point as well

 

I’m sure this guy is being “targeted” by activists, and/or he welcomed this “targeting” because it means $$$ gifted to him in the grifter economy.

But if we take this seriously and look at what he’s being asked to do, make a half pink cake and half blue cake, that’s a pretty huge reach to me to call this “speech”. The only reason he knows this is a supposed gender “transition” cake is the person told him it is.

 

That this guy likes going to court more than baking a cake and having a life? I think I got that.

 

Sorry I misread your post

 

So I also say it’s legal to not serve blacks, Jews, gay people, handicapped people, and throw in Latinos for kicks. I know, then we can all start a movement together to not serve them. We could all wear uniforms and raise our right hand stiffly in the air, thus celebrating our social commitment to genetic purity!

What can go wrong?

 

THIS is the point. Telling people to go somewhere else or bake their own damn cake, was my initial reaction, but upon reflection, it misses the point. Bigotry should be confronted, though it's like playing wack-a-mole.

 

Does this guy realize that if he came out and said he disagreed with the LGBTQ lifestyle but was willing to sell these specialized cakes, no LGBTQ person would ask him to make the cakes?

 

It should be confronted by not using his business. Forcing him and suing him only hardens his position and those that agree with him. It won't change it.

Let your dollars do the talking. If he can keep his doors open because enough people support his business then the will of the people have spoken.

My personal belief is discrimination should not be illegal. Private businesses should have the right to turn away anyone they choose. The caveat being that the business should be required to post signage in the window. So the buying public knows before spending their dollars. If they stay in business, the people have spoken.

When it comes to my business the only color I see is green.

 

Why would anyone want to force a business to cater to them ? Never mind if homosexual, even skin color. And in a free society (pipe dream, I know) the refusal of business would create an entrepreneurial opportunity for another business.

 

American history says otherwise. There are people still alive today that can remember “separate but equal” treatment.



While i don’t assume we would fully roll back to the overt racial discrimination this country had before the 1960’s, I also totally reject the idea that these laws are no longer necessary. Cases like these actually tell me we need to close the gaps in public accommodation laws, not that we need to eliminate them.

 

To me, this “transition cake” seems like it would be compelling expressive conduct even more than the wedding cake was.

At least with the wedding cake there was an argument that “a wedding cake is a wedding cake and the only difference is who they’re making it for.” I’m not sure the same is true here, as the cake seems intended to convey a specific message.

This one seems more speech-like and treads closer to the hypothetical on the other side: imagine a small print shop owned by a gay couple, should Westboro Baptist Church be able to compel them to print their “God Hates [gay people]” signs?

 

Why is it that the "best" counter examples people offer to a wedding cake or some kind of normal event are some kind of cake with a vicious slur or hate speech on it? Is someone getting married or deciding to transition hate speech to Christians? If so, that's pretty telling. But you see, they always insist it isnt. Its nothing against the person, its the sin you see, so they claim.

 

That all sounds very logical in the abstract legal sense. But let's talk about what's really going on. I would say this is even slightly different than the race relations public accommodations issue in terms of what is going on culturally, although the legal framework should be identical.

Social conservatives don't like that gender nonconforming individuals are no longer stigmatized, no longer second-class citizens. That used to be just a function of society, a status that was automatic. No one had to do anything special. You just knew you were supposed to feel shame and feel like you were not quite a regular American.

Social conservatives lost that battle, legally and culturally. So now they're saying that they have the religious freedom, or the free speech rights, to stigmatize other Americans as icky, unworthy, second-class citizens. They want them to feel shame; they want them to feel like they don't belong.

That's what's really at issue, not the baking of a cake, but the ability to stigmatize individuals that feel they don't need to lead a life of shame anymore. Plaintiffs like in this case want them to feel shame

 

Well said. Much more succinct than me. That's really the point. They want to pretend that if a person they don't like still feels OK and equal, that feeling is is somehow an attack on them. They want to equate someone celebrating their existence to a pure expression of hatred. It falls apart immediately, and there is one party that should feel shame and it's not the individual ordering the cake

 

Back with the original case, I was open to the idea that “custom designed cakes” are a form of expression, that the baker could be expected to make a generic wedding cake for a gay couple, but not a cake with custom design or text which would force his expression/speech.

Not sure what is custom here. The article only mentions a pink and blue cake. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Basically same deal as if he stated he didn’t believe in interracial marriage and thus couldn’t mix chocolate and vanilla on a cake. The colors aren’t speech. If he is asked to do more, I’d think differently. I tend to think this whole thing is a stunt for attention at this point.

 

Of course it's a stunt. A stunt by the alphabet crowd to force this guy to accept them or run him out of business.