Who Truly Threatens the Church?

We are all alike believers. Even scientists. Just going by 2020ff, especially scientists.

 

Are you a Christian ? Do you have faith ?

 

Angel:“Why are you crying?”

Mary: “They have taken away my Lord's body! I don't know where they have put him.”

Angel: “Don’t worry about all that. Irritable, put-upon sorts on Too Hot will instruct you on how to run things from here.”

 

Religious topics are always tricky but we all know organized religion is on a downhill trend here in the U.S.

Like many I was a cradle Catholic. Baptized before I had any clue what was going on, confirmed before I had any real choice (like kids in 8th grade have any type of real choice, lol), went to Catholic grade school and high school. My high school was all boys and honestly while the education was amazing (the best in my area) I do feel like it stunted my growth in terms of dealing with non-religious people and even women to an extent (the Catholic high school I went to was all boys). Point of all this, like many cradle Catholics, didn't really have a choice in the matter. It led to me being very conflicted about the Catholic Church growing up.

Also like many cradle Catholics once I was 18 and off to college it became my choice and like many I fell away. I was away from the Catholic Church for easily a good 15 years. I actually did give 2 separate non-denominational Christian churches a try but they really weren't for me. Essentially I just became spiritual but not religious.

I did end up going to the Catholic Church again and do try to go at least every few weeks. I'll never be a every week type again but I am trying to grow my relationship with God. For me I love the sanctity and the quietness/peacefulness of the Catholic Church over the sporting event/rock concert type atmosphere of some of the non-denomination Christian churches I went to.

I doubt I will ever have children but if I did I would probably try to raise them in the Catholic Church at first just so they have exposure. But honestly once they got to high school I would tell them it's their choice how they want to proceed spiritually at that point. I would definitely no longer force them to attend. Heck even for me with my father even when I was not practicing I went to Christmas service, if for no other reason not to cause family drama around the holidays. I'm sure plenty of people attend for the same reasons. I would never want any kids of mine to attend once they get old enough simply because they had to. I truly think the forcing aspect is what causes many Catholics and even Christians in general to turn away once they are adults.

As for taxes my opinion on that is I've already paid taxes on it already, what gives the government the right to tax me twice? I don't expect churches to get special treatment but as others have said just have them follow the same rules that all other non-profits follow. For every Joel Osteen type who heads over a mega church and flies on a private jet there are 100 churches who are barely getting enough money to survive each month. Many of you here who are against churches only focus on the relatively few Joel Osteen type mega churches.

Are you also wanting to tax the synagogues and mosques as well? Many of you here will criticize churches but I never hear anything about other religious. Ever religion, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam all collect money from their members in some form or another. This thread has shown how much vitriol there is for Christianity in general and yet that vitriol is never directed at Judaism or Islam. Any religion that has enough influence will try to influence politics, even if it's only through their members.

As others have said the church has far more to fear from the government than the government does from the church.

While I have tried to rejoin the Catholic Church on a semi regular basis it does not escape me that you look around and it's mostly older individuals. You see some younger families but definitely not nearly as many. Many of them are Hispanic. If it wasn't for young Hispanics ironically Catholic Church attendance would absolutely be in the toilet. You see very few younger white people attending mass anymore.

As an older Millennial I don't think people are becoming less spiritual as much as they are becoming less religious. In most studies the biggest growth isn't among Atheist or even Agnostic but amount the "Spiritual but not Religious" group. Even when I had fallen away I still believed in God but I didn't really believe in religion. While I have gone back to the Catholic Church I do believe it would do a lot of religions well to stop trying to get into the politics. I do agree with many here that politics, on both sides, is what is driving a lot of people away.

Over time as the Boomers and Gen X fade out I think spirituality is going to become more of an individual experience for people. People are going to customized their relationship with God and while I think people will believe in God I think religion will increasingly become obsolete. It will be good in some ways (less influence on politics) and bad in other ways (one less way for people to feel like a part of a community and not just an individual) but I think that's where we're going. Where everyone has to find their own path to God and it becomes more about developing that relationship with God more so than just being in a pew once a week.

 

While not directed at me as a Catholic you are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin. I do and would never hate someone who is gay, lesbian or bi-sexual, but I do not endorse the lifestyle either. I work with several individuals who are gay, lesbian and bi-sexual. They know I don't approve of the lifestyle but have nothing against them at all. We have a good working relationship and one I consider a good friend. I support their right to have the same legal protections that a heterosexual couple have.

If I had kids I would tell them to try to love and be kind to everyone but to also explain why our beliefs indicate that lifestyle is wrong and a sin. Being against the gay, lesbian and bi-sexual lifestyle is not a sin no matter how much you want it to be.

The push back you are seeing currently is the lifestyle trying to be shoved down the throats of our children. That I will fight against. I will fight against someone being gay, lesbian or bi-sexual being in a community parade half naked. And before you say anything if some man and woman were touching each other up in front of a child of mine I would ask them to stop or go somewhere else. If some straight man or straight woman was in a community parade half naked I would have a problem with that as well.

 

Add: homosexuality is no greater a sin than any number of others … but it’s the only sin that has a PR department.

 

Do you hold Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or Jewish people to same standard you hold Christians? Almost every religion has been involved in some form of battle or war or had some group they disagreed with. There are still many Muslim countries where just being a Christian is enough to be legally killed. Or is it just Christians that you hate?

You sound like someone who hated the Christian baker and would gladly force them to create a product they wouldn't normally create to support something they don't support.

Would you do the same to a Muslim baker? A Jewish baker? I can guarantee you none of them would've baked that cake either, yet no attacking them.

 

True but it is a sin as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, there is no debate there. I have no power to decide which sins get the most attention. Again I was gone from the Catholic Church for a long time myself due to some belief differences. I believe in reincarnation which the Catholic Church does not believe in. I decided long ago when I leave this world for my next life (or to go to heaven) that I wanted to be cremated and scattered in several different locations. Up until recently the Catholic Church did not allow cremation. I don't blindly support the Catholic Church and have little say in what they focus on. But that is why I went back, out of all the Christian religions here in the U.S. they tend to just focus on the word of God and not get into politics as much. Say what you want but since I returned to the Catholic Church I have not had one sermon where the priest focused on a current political issue. For the most part it's interpreting the word of God which is what I want.

I would argue homosexuality is up front and center right now because of how badly it's being pushed down a lot of people's throats. Sadly it's something I saw coming. For many in the homosexual community it's not enough to be equal in the eyes of the law, they must be celebrated. Like I'm sorry but there's no reason to have a whole month forcing the homosexual lifestyle down our throats. It was never going to be enough to be equal, they have to be special, they have to be celebrated. Many of us, myself included, support equality, but we will not celebrate a lifestyle we disagree with.

 

One month is not enough anymore for the extortionists. They want a Summer of Love.

 

That was not my intent but I don't need to wait, we know the answer. The thought process is clear, attack Christians only. Don't attack Muslims and Jewish people because we need them to vote for us.

You would never see a gay, lesbian or bi-sexual couple go to a Jewish or Muslim cake shop and demand that they custom design a cake (that they wouldn't normally offer) to celebrate a lifestyle they disagree with.

 

Interesting that you left the Catholic Church because it did not endorse reincarnation. At the same time, condemnation of homosexuality is non-negotiable. Isn’t that the sort of horse trading progressives are up to ?

 

Great post

 

My feeling is if God had wanted homosexuality then gays and lesbians would be able to procreate. I know you all like to use other animal species who are homosexual but in those cases they can procreate which doesn't make it a good comparison.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be legal and they shouldn't be equal, I'm just not going to celebrate it. And I don't know why, call it memories from a past life or just an empathetic feeling, but I do believe in reincarnation. I do believe we have multiple lives. I could see where at some point you are called back up to be with God in heaven but I don't think you only get one life. But I'll admit it's something I struggled with for years and it was a big reason I left the Catholic Church for a long time.

 

Christians get most of the animosity because they are the majority here. Door knockers in DeLand are all xtian. Mainly JWs but a local baptist church(I think)also comes by every couple of months to invite me to a service. The next time a Muslim, a jewish or a Hindu person knocks on my door will be a first.

 

Seriously you believe in reincarnation?? So you don’t even believe the nonsense in the Bible. lol.

 

Find me one person on the left or one person who is Atheist who ever attacks Muslims or Jewish people the way they attack Christians. This despite the fact that at their worst some militant Christians simply want gays, lesbians and bisexuals o not be able to marry (something I disagree with). At their worst militant Muslims simply kill gays, lesbians and bisexuals. And yet Muslims never receive the criticism that Christians receive.

Heck look at this thread alone, most of these posters would never dare say the things they just said about Christians to Muslims or Jewish people. It would absolutely be considered hateful.

 

Yes I do and I believe in each life we are meant to learn different things. I do believe we are eventually judged and that we either go to heaven or hell but I don't think we have one life. Too much of a waste of energy both by God and by the universe.

 

‘My feeling’ is probably not the best way to establish transcendence. In fact, it’s at the core of the current justification for gender fluidity (and the horrors it entails). It’s how they ‘feel’ and damn anyone who questions it.

Changing gears, even if I were no more than an agnostic libertarian (which is what I am every other Tuesday) I’d note, along with you, that homosexuals are not merely asking for tolerance in the church. They were clearly lying about that. They are liars.

 

So it’s personal. You hold a grudge against those who out number you and hold different beliefs.
Cool.

 

I invite the JW’s and Mormons in. Partly because I appreciate their dedication. But also because I don’t hate them.