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What needs to change

Discussion in 'Nuttin but Net' started by gatorrick1, Nov 30, 2023.

  1. gatorrick1

    gatorrick1 GC Hall of Fame

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    As a coach, it’s hard to watch our games and not get frustrated at how close we are to being a good team. There are some key improvements that need to happen to make us a tourney team. The good news is I think the ability is there, the only question is can Golden get them to where they need to be. Here’s a small list of things I see:

    1. Samuel has to improve as a defender when involved in ball screen action. Teams are targeting him as a ball screen defender and really taking advantage of his inability to process what to do/ play in space. This is something that is coachable, although difficult for some bigs to get. He needs to hedge with more intensity and recover much quickly. He often gets lost in between the two. By not doing either, other teams take advantage and get the gators in scramble mode often leading to an open 3 or fairly easy bucket. One thing that would help is if our guard defenders would apply more ball pressure on these ball screens forcing offensive players to not use the ball screen as effectively. We do this in spurts but not near consistently enough. Samuel must improve in this area though or we will not be a good defensive team with him on the court vs quality opponents.

    2. taking open catch and shoot opportunities. We are passing up way to many open 3’s to drive into cramped spaces which lead to turnovers, bad spacing and tough 2’s. I think Golden alluded to this in his press conference last night. This is another coachable point, but ultimately players need to put the work in to be confident catch and shoot guys.

    3. spacing both in transition and in the half court on offense. While offense hasn’t been our number one issue we can be better if guys are more disciplined with their spacing. We are kinda just running when in transition not spreading the floor like we need to be to be as effective as possible. I already mentioned in the half court the issues with over penetration and how that can impact spacing but it also is guys not standing around and watching.

    4. Defensive effort, it’s just not consistent enough. We need to play hard all the time, ball pressure wise, getting into passing lanes, defensive rebounding and maybe most importantly closing out with high hands. Run shooters off the 3 point line and recover with effort.

    5. stop over helping, by over helping we are giving up open 3’s and losing sight of our man.

    6. playing with intention each possession. You can really see how this team occasionally floats thru the game. We waste several possessions on both ends with just a lack of focus and purpose.

    There are of course other points. if we can hone in on these though we have a chance to be very good. It’s a big if. I like Golden, but I think there is some growth with him that needs to happen. Guys need to be accountable, he needs to figure out rotations (example: you can’t have Pullin and Clayton both off the floor) he needs to get his guys to play more fundamentally sound. I know he is a player’s coach and wants his guys to be relaxed and I like that but you have to find the balance between relaxed and focused playing with effort and relaxed playing without intention. Time will tell as this season goes on if he is the guy or not but I think the pieces are there so let’s see if he can get them together.

    Lastly, no doubt having Micah out hurts us defensively. I love the two freshman bigs, but they are freshman and can just be outmanned sometimes defensively and on the boards. I can’t wait to see the two of them though for the next few years. They both are tough and play hard with skills. Haugh’s energy and active hands are huge. He makes so many little plays with a tip here and slap away there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
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  2. proudgator1973

    proudgator1973 VIP Member

    Lastly, no doubt having Micah out hurts us defensively. I love the two freshman bigs, but they are freshman and can just be outmanned sometimes defensively and on the boards. I can’t wait to see the two of them though for the next few years. They both are tough and play hard with skills. Hawk’s energy and active hands are huge. He makes so many little plays with a tip here and slap away there.[/QUOTE]

    Who is Hawk? Is that a nickname for Haugh or someone else?
     
  3. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    Interesting points from a coach's perspective and I appreciate how you break them down. I think it also needs to be said our depth isn't what we had hoped going into the season. I believe the potential is there but the effort is not. By that, once Handlogten and Scymczyk get back, we will have plenty of big men for the 2 spots and that many more fouls to give so our bigs can play aggressive for the whole game.

    Guard depth is a bigger issue for me. Aberdeen and Rishwain aren't the players we thought they would be. They both have their inefficiencies and have negative effects on offense or defense when in the game. That said, Will Richard seems to be having trouble in the backup role. I get he was a key starter at times last year but he has not engaged as a consistent sixth man for this team. Clayton, Pullin, and Kugel deserve to be starters. Those three with Handlogten and Samuel can play some high level ball together and fit a very proven basketball model for a starting five. We just don't have guys yet that can rotate in and keep the momentum flowing.
     
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  4. gatorrick1

    gatorrick1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Who is Hawk? Is that a nickname for Haugh or someone else?[/QUOTE]

    sorry yes lol. I call Haugh, Hawk. My nickname for him. My bad.
     
  5. ocalaman

    ocalaman GC Hall of Fame

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    We foul too much and play very inconsistent defense. Except for the FSU game, where they played about as well as they could, those have been the 2 biggest drawbacks I've seen. I do think gatorrrick1 made some very valid observations.
     
  6. bigDgator

    bigDgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Excellent points.
     
  7. goldenerababy

    goldenerababy Junior

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    • The instincts just aren’t there with the majority of players. Any player shooting over 30% from 3 should never pass up an open shot unless it’s an end of game situation. But it seems like the only two who won’t pass up an outside shot are our two worst outside shooting players. It’s like our staff has given pep talks to them to get their confidence going, so they tell them they have the green light to shoot. This is not a new problem. Donovan would’ve benched Aberdeen the second he shot that one forced shot.
    • Will Richard needs to get going and be more heavily involved. I’m a little tired of the two tiny guards being the most heavily involved players. Don’t know what’s going on with Pullin and Clayton but neither are game changers. Start one, bench one.
    • It feels like we’re pretty bad with last possessions before halftime. Todd seems to think Pullin is that guy who can create his own shot on the fly but he’s not that guy.
    • If we’re looking for a guard to give some minutes to our main guys, why not go with Klatsky? He’s not going to jack up forced jumpers and he’ll play smart defensively. Aberdeen has been caught in no man’s land on defense one too many times for my liking.
    • Our in-game adjustments don’t exist. We’ll play 40 minutes the exact same way. Call some type of offensive play when you need a bucket or someone has the hot hand. Defensively, don’t let the same player take over the game.
     
  8. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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  9. fox

    fox GC Hall of Fame

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    Still playing disjointed much of the time. Hopefully we'll get more comfortable and ramp up the intensity. I see no vocal leadership yet.
     
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  10. audiogatorjim

    audiogatorjim GC Hall of Fame

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    I would try Pullin and Richards unless it has been and I missed it; something seems amiss with the player rotations.
    Good teams with good talent play their best combination of players to start and substitute in for rest, fouls, poor play. The players on the bench have to earn their way to more time and possibly starting by effort, hustle, attitude, and great play. Nothing new here except more sanctimonious kids in these days
     
  11. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    I like that we look to push fast at every opportunity, BUT seems like turnovers get out of control at times.

    The half court offense and defense needs more polishing. It’s not totally inept like White's half court, but it just feels like he needs to get them back on track more quickly when the ball isnt moving… basically in game adjustments or calling (hopefully successful) set plays.
     
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  12. gatorrick1

    gatorrick1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Pullin isn’t tiny, only Clayton is smaller. With that said I think last night Richard was active defensively when he first came in and made an impact. With how poorly Pullin was playing I think Richard should have had more run. Aberdeen is decent defensively but not good on Offense and worse he doesn’t realize he’s not good on offense. So his usage is too high when in the game. I think Rishwain should be worked in a little more. He hasn’t hurt us out on the court and with our poor outside shooting he and Richard taking more of those 3’s would be a good thing.

    Completely agree on Golden making a mistake putting the ball in Pullin’s hands at the end of half situations and asking him to go make a play. That should either be a set we run where we look to get someone a shot or Clayton who is a better offensive player.
     
  13. gatorrick1

    gatorrick1 GC Hall of Fame

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    One other item that bears watching is can Pullin and Clayton be as successful and efficient offensively in a P5 conference. Pullin especially relied on his size/strength advantage at the last school and would work himself into the paint or midrange and knock down shots.
    Both he and Clayton can still do that, but can they do it as efficiently. It’s not that those guys can’t make plays at this level they absolutely can. It’s can they do it at the same level of where they left. So far I would say that is a ? Time will tell and also maybe they will adjust.

    It stinks Pullen was out and then Micah has been out, not only does that hurt us numbers and talent wise, but early in the season should be when your figuring out your rotations. Hard to do that without all hands on deck. Even in the NBA sometimes when a star comes back the team initially plays worse for a few games as the team figures things out. Our rotations are funky and it has impacted us especially last night when up 9, but maybe Golden just doesn’t have a feel yet for who plays well together.
    Of course he will also have to take into account in game adjustments to that which unfortunately so far hasn’t been a great strength. He is better at adjustments over games then in game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  14. GatorMcCluskey

    GatorMcCluskey GC Hall of Fame

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    totally agree with OP's observations on our over helping defensively - Wake absolutely carved us up a lot of times by staying patient and making extra passes to open guys when our defenders got out of position.

    I think last night Wake set the tone early with their defensive aggression and physicality - they were sending hard doubles and jumping passing lanes all night, and we just never quite got in a groove offensively. Plus that was a pretty raucous environment and it seemed like our guys weren't really dialed in and ready for it.

    didn't help that a lot of ticky tack crap was called on UF while the Deacons were getting away with a bit more physical play on the other end, but whatever - got to stay tough and play through it, we had a chance to win and let it get away from us.
     
  15. VTGator

    VTGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Lots of overreaction to early season struggles. This group has had very little time playing together: 65% of minutes played and 67% of points scored by new additions, only 7 games in. We lost to two good teams by a total of 7 points. Then WF game was our first true away game, missing a starter, with historically bad home cooking by TV Teddy.

    Give this team time to gel.
     
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  16. gatorrick1

    gatorrick1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Not sure if your referring to the op when you say overreactions. The op is in fact the opposite of any reaction. They are coaching points that need to be improved for this team to maximize their potential. As a coach it doesn’t take several games to see areas of needed improvement. I think Golden said that today in his press conference. The goal of the op as a coach was to explain some of what I was seeing as challenges so the more casual fan can watch and look for improvement.
     
  17. VTGator

    VTGator GC Hall of Fame

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    No, it was not specifically directed at the OP of this thread.
     
  18. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    Took a little longer than expected for the honeymoon to end
     
  19. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    I won't (ie, can't) comment on Samuel's skill on defense. I can only go with my eyes and he is WAY better in the game than not. You get the whole package and not just parts. Kind of like Aberdeen, who has obvious offensive limitations but he is pesty on defense. And to Aberdeen, he needs more coaching/nurturing to figure out a viable offensive game plan...and stick to it. After that he needs some tough love if he tries too hard.

    If things on rotation seem kind of off, it is entirely plausible (as weird as it sounds) that Pullin is who is the first off the bench and not Richard. But to me, it is all about these guys still figuring out the team and not any petulancy. As bad as it sounds, it appears that Micah is going to be THE key piece by being the rim protector/inside offense guy. That way the others can play their more helpful positions (both offense and defense). If we can get Condon strictly as an alternate to Micah and Haugh in for Samuel, that should work until Mr. Consonants can get into the rotation...in January:eek::eek::eek:.

    I have always gotten tiffed because of the "help" defense inside. It reminds me of the prevent defense in football, where you are mainly preventing your team from succeeding. Truly frustrating. Make THEIR bigs prove that our bigs can't hold up THEN go to the help. Otherwise, we are just running those guys around like a Chinese fire drill. And yes, Golden does not seem to know when to try zone. That appears to be his blind spot.

    I still say that the reason the 3 defense is lacking on any team is because the players don't really have confidence in their assignments or others'. It takes time to learn for many and that includes all the new pieces. I kind of like the 1-3-1 zone that White ran. I would like to see it a time or two before the SEC begins.

    And to those who like to "comment" when we lose games, you believe we are destined for greatness and our coaches are screwing it up? Really? This is NOT a Blue Blood program. We ARE are football school. I like basketball and I am not worried that we did not get to the Final Four each and every year. I would NEVER want to be a current Kentucky basketball fan. Cal is ripping them off SO badly. And yes, Arkansas is a better resourced program than us. They to me are the most valued program. Tennessee is nothing much until I see more from their coach.

    And to that, this team is FUN to watch. How about enjoying the process (ie, watching all the pieces learning to mesh) instead of going all psycho when we haven't won each and every game? That would help a lot with the vibe on the board. Honest.