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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    You know some of those Ukrainian soldiers are like “da fuq is dees sheet??!”
     
  2. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Drive the war criminals into the sea.
     
  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Not all of them revere Bandera. Especially the ones who’ve been press-ganged into become cannon fodder.
     
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    US foreign policy in a nutshell …

     
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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Got to hear General Breedlove speak the other day here at War College. I have signed a nondisclosure agreement about everything said in those kinds of lectures. So no specifics. But it was fascinating insight on the war, as it is unfolding now to a certain degree, but also what happened in 2014 when he was leading European Command. If the mark of an intelligent person is how much they agree with you, then he is very intelligent person indeed.
     
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  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    It was foolish for the Biden administration to believe a few months of training would make the Ukrainians fight like American soldiers. Just like the F-16s. So dumb. They would be better off training a Ukrainian pilot from scratch on F-16s than they would one who’s familiar with Soviet jets. It will be nearly impossible for those pilots to unlearn everything they’re accustomed to in the Soviet jets and recall the variations in an F-16 as they’re being targeted by Russian anti-aircraft. The delay and then the idea itself they could train Ukrainian pilots within a few months is so grossly incompetent that Biden should be charged with war crimes for setting those boys up for failure like this.
     
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  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Russians referring to Ukrainian attacks as “meat waves” now.
     
  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    As a career military aviator who has trained on and trained others, including foreign exchange pilots, in different types of tactical aircraft, your assertion does not remotely match up with my experience.
     
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  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    those munitions depots taken out are starting to have an effect. interesting that they credit these strikes to drones and not stormshadow missiles which was in the original reports I recall reading

    Russia Forced to Reduce Attacks After Suffering Massive Ammunition Loss (msn.com)

    Ukrainian strikes on Russian military storage sites have resulted in Russian forces suffering an ammunition shortage that's "significantly reduced" their ability to mount attacks, according to a Ukrainian official.

    Natalia Humeniuk, a spokesperson for Ukraine's southern operational command, shared the assessment during a Thursday briefing with the Media Center Ukraine-Ukrinform.

    Humeniuk's comments followed high-profile Ukrainian drone strikes on Russian ammunition storage sites in July. This includes an attack on an ammunition depot in Crimea on July 22 that forced evacuations of homes in the area, as well as a July 4 drone bombing of a depot close to the Russian-controlled Ukrainian city of Makiivka. Video of the massive explosions triggered by the Makiivka strike spread across social media and garnered international news coverage.
    .....................................
    "We see everything," Maliar wrote. "This is our answer to the frontal assaults of the enemy. We inflict effective, painful point blows, bleed the occupier, for whom the lack of ammunition and fuel will sooner or later become fatal. In modern warfare, logistical objectives are key."
     
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  10. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    My dad and brother were both USAF pilots; in fact my brother currently flies for the AF reserves and has trained on a half dozen planes and is currently training for Alaska Airlines 737 airframe. He laughed at the idea it would take as long as Okee claims it would take to cross-train. But Okee knows all so maybe my brother is wrong…

    Edit: Forgot to mention that my brother believes F-16s won’t be a game changer anyway which is likely one reason for not pushing them through sooner (along with the logistical and maintenance hurdles).
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
  11. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    That's a shocker.
     
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  12. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    And so how long do you think it would take to train Ukrainian Air Force pilots to effectively carry out combat missions across the front line in Ukraine? We’re not talking about merely flying an F-16 or simulators. Actual successful combat missions against Russian targets, without being shot down. Because we’re already seeing how difficult it is to train infantry. I can’t imagine it would be any less difficult to train pilots. How long would you say it will take to have them combat ready in an F-16?
     
  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    F-16s would absolutely be a game changer if they were piloted by experienced Air Force pilots who've had extensive training, use and knowledge of all of the onboard controls. In other words, the pilot makes all the difference in the world as to how effectively the F-16s speed and capabilities are utilized. I'll tell you right now, my biggest fear about us sending F-16's to Ukraine is that it will be American pilots who end up flying them. You see the results of our training of 36,000~ Ukrainian infantry for six months. Not going too well, but a first class fighter jet is going to go smoother? Get real. The only reason F-16's are going to Ukraine is in the event America becomes directly involved. They are not going to allow the Ukrainians to waste a bunch of F-16s. Not after seeing what they've done with our tanks, especially.
     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Note: at the time of the article the writer thought that talk of sending F-16s was little more than bluster …


    The notion that the US (and/or its NATO allies) can ship F-16s and A-10s to Ukraine in order to save the Ukrainians from an otherwise absolutely certain defeat is an unqualified delusion; a ridiculous fantasy of the highest order.

    To be even more precise, it’s batshit crazy silly talk.

    Flying Coffins
     
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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Being able to carry out combat missions and being able to avoid getting shot down are two different things. The F-16 does not match up well against the S-300 and S-400 SAM systems, so some of them are going to get shot down, even if Tom Cruise clones are flying them. Some of them will reach their targets and do some damage. We will have to wait and see how many get shot down and what kind of damage they are able to inflict on the Russians. Ukraine has pilots, and they could use some sort of an advantage from the air to help their cause. They may start out by clearing the Black Sea of Russian ships and destroying the bridges to Crimea, if the S-300/400 range does not include the Black Sea. Then they might try flying herds of drones along with the F-16's and see if that helps their odds of getting past the air defenses.
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine hasn't done anything yet with the Abrams tanks, have they? I don't think they have arrived on the battlefield yet. As for the Leopards and British Challengers, only a very small percentage of them have been destroyed. It's not like half are destroyed, and the other half are out of action getting repaired.

    There is no way the U.S. is going to put American pilots into F-16's against Russia's S-300 and S-400 SAM systems. Some would get shot down, and the American public would be angry that we lost American lives with a 50-year-old plane when we have a 5-year-old plane that is invisible to the SAM systems. Obviously, we aren't going to give our F-35's to Ukraine. But if they want our ancient F-16's and think they can have some success with them, let them have the planes. Same thing with the A-10 Warthogs. If American military pilots go in to fight for Ukraine, it will almost certainly be in F-35's or F-22's. We would be "in it to win it" at that point. Once you send active U.S. servicemen into battle with Russia, you have effectively declared war on Russia. You don't get an exemption from the war declaration by flying ancient planes. That's not how it works. (Is this your first war you've ever read about?)

    As far as training Ukraine's infantry to defeat multiple layers of defenses with extensive minefields, I would say that combined forces integration is supposedly one of the most difficult things to learn in warfare. With modern weapons, defenses, and mines, it is even more difficult. And we weren't apparently training the most experienced Ukrainian troops that were sent in on the first wave. In spite of all that, Ukraine made some progress. Finally, the decision to give Ukraine F-16's has nothing to do with Ukraine's ability to pick up combined forces warfare. Their pilots and their infantry are completely separate people.
     
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine has used some of our weapons better than we have EVER used them. I'm talking about the Patriot air defense systems. How do you explain that?

    Apparently, there is at least some chance that Ukraine will be successful with the F-16's. And Russia agrees with this, based on the number of nuclear weapons threats that come up after we mention giving F-16's to Ukraine. The Russians are terrified of the F-16. There is probably a reason for that.
     
  18. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    She fought for Ukraine and was injured. She’s an active journalist and supporter of Ukraine’s efforts. And Ukrainian MOD applauded her efforts. But still not seeing where she is the “official speaker of the Armed Forces of Ukraine”. As claimed in that tweet.

    Andrii Kovalov is their “official” spokesperson.
     
  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    According to the documentary Battlefield Earth, with the right motivation, people educated only to Neolithic standards can self-instruct on how to successfully maintain, fly, and fight with large formations of 1000-year-old tactical aircraft against a technologically advanced foe in a matter of days.

    So did that go the way you thought it was going to go?

    Nope.

     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
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  20. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    "the official speaker of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for Western audiences" was the claim and here you go:

    The Blade first spoke with Ashton-Cirillo last December while she was in D.C. to speak with lawmakers on behalf of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry about the Armed Forces of Ukraine’s medical needs.

    And also this from the same article, there's this:

    Ukrainian officials this week denied Russia’s claims that it had captured Bakhmut, a city in Donetsk Oblast. (Ashton-Cirillo last December told the Blade she had previously worked to counter Russian propaganda that claimed Russian troops had captured the city.)

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    He's a real stand up guy.

    Transgender journalist who enlisted in Ukrainian military returns to D.C.