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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “Paris could fall in three days.”

    — Gen. Mark Milley —
     
  2. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Aw, poor baby. Somebody challenged your world view and all you have are insults, because you don't know what the hell you're talking about unless you saw it on Dailykos first. You are excruciatingly naive if you think this is the first time Russia has hit Ukrainian military targets embedded in civilian buildings. Your cheerleading does a horrible job of covering for your lack of knowledge of the subject matter at hand.
     
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I do wonder, personally, if this time they hit a military target by chance or because they were aiming at a different target a few blocks away.
     
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  4. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    It's not exactly an honorable deed to cloak your military with civilians in urban centers and claim some sort of stealth as your countrymen and women "a few blocks away" get their flat blown to smithereens and lose their lives. I mean, yeah, I am sure Russia is missing quite a few of their targets. That is the whole point of using civilian shelter in war. It is much harder for the enemy to track you down if you're not sitting in a barracks. But it's hardly noble or honorable, so I am not sure I am ready to mock Russia for missing their targets. Somebody "a few blocks away" still got hit.
     
  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    We are discussing separate issues, but the fact is Russia has not caught up with Western precision-guided weapons technology from the 1990s. That completely turns many of our pre-war assumptions on their heads. They appear to not have advanced one bit since the Soviet Union fell. Yes, I’m going to mock them for that.
     
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  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm always open to learning more. Curious if you can specify your source that Russia is firing 100s of missiles into Ukraine and missing most of their targets? I believe the part about Russia sending hundreds of missiles into Ukraine, but how have we determined they are missing their targets a majority of the time? And if they are, good thing we have a war going in Ukraine now so they can play target practice with their precision-guided weapons for use in future wars.
     
  7. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    As an aside, taking the Ukrainians at their word, Russia using scorched earth tactics in the Donbas and further into Bakhmut. In other words, most of what Russia holds right now is rubble, correct? And so if Ukraine needs civilian shelter for cover, that might be a problem if there's nothing left standing in the areas they're attempting to reclaim.
     
  8. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    Any

    the issue is plain and simple, Russia has no right to attack any target inside Ukrain. They are the aggressors.
     
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  9. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Seems like this has to be be repeated over and over.

    There is no justification for any of Russia’s activities. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

    The lie that they are “denazifying” Ukraine makes even Donald Rumsfelds corpse blush.
     
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  10. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Where did I say Russia had a right to attack any targets inside Ukraine?
     
  11. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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  12. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    If you don’t think they do then your argument about placement of military has no standing. Damn Ukes are defending themselves from an aggressor. You need to spend more time discussing why that is wrong.
     
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  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure, it does. Let me ask you a question. We have sent Ukraine $130 billion in the past year. Do you believe we're spending that money on a humanitarian effort or something else? If it's not humanitarian, why are we spending it?

    Anyone with a set of eyes and ears can see that. I'm not logging on here to repeat the obvious over and over. Do you see any room to be critical of our involvement in Ukraine at all? Everything's perfect? Nothing to question?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
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  14. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    So the guy says Putin is full of shit, how does this help whatever point you are attempting to make? When this old article originally came out and was pushed by some Putin fluffers in the alt-right, it was pointed out that Ukraine’s “Nazi problem” isn’t all that different from the U.S.’s Nazi problem. Do we want Putin to “denazify” the U.S. under the same idiotic false pretense?

    Putin is in no way “denazifying” Ukraine. That’s a lie. There’s more evidence they target civilians than Nazi’s. If anything, after a year of war if there are Nazi battalions this invasion is possibly hardening them as soldiers. Although nobody can really predict what will happen after a war, as of now it seems they have no issue working under a Jewish President as their commander. Just a guess: some were probably misguided young men before the invasion gave them a different purpose.
     
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  15. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    The point of posting the link was to show you even the most biased of news sources felt the need to point out there is a Nazi problem in Ukraine and no, it is nothing like that here in the United States. Neo-nazis here in the United States have no power whatsoever. We would never co-opt a neo-Nazi group into our military. We aren't hoisting statues of neo-Nazis. We haven't had any Congresspeople who said the Holocaust was a "bright period" in human history. (on edit: ooops, forgot about Ilhan Omar) We didn't have to recently pass a bill to criminalize anti-Semitism. They have a problem there. It came up long before 2022 as well. Here's more background, March 2018:

    Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

    There you go again. What's your problem, dude? I've never claimed Putin was denazifying anything. Nor do I support Putin in any way, shape or fashion. You're just making shit up as you go. And no, you're not paraphrasing me, because I would never say anything like that at all.

    The point is to show you that we're not aiding an honest, benevolent government who share American ideals. They are an extremely corrupt country who have chased 3 presidents out of power due to corruption in the past 20 years. They have state controlled media and were ranked 97th out of 180 countries in freedom of the press in 2021, under Zelenskyy. They are not saints and my concern is the United States involvement there, sending weapons and making war for a country that has very little to no strategic value to the United States. It's just a notch in the belt to us and the Ukrainian people are being used as pawns and dying.
     
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  16. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Gee fellas, it looks like I hurt his feeling. lol ok dude whatever helps you sleep at night. Feel free to block me if you want you sanctimonious russian apologist.
     
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  17. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh right on cue here he is again telling us how bad Ukraine is again.
     
  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    I mean, my post was “the de-nazification is a lie that would make Rumsfeld blush”. A post not directed at you, and your response is dropping a link that appears in effect to be “well, actually”, that is you taking issue with the statement that it’s bullshit, giving some credence to the lie that Russia is denazifying Ukraine. Again, no, they aren’t. It’s a false pretense. Full stop. There is no “well, actually” on this.

    You realize Russia and Putin is the root of much of this corruption, right? It’s a bit of circular logic to point back to their previous subjugation as justification for why their fight for sovereignty should not be supported now or in the future. Under that standard, how could any people escape tyranny? How would any country render aid in such a fight? The people appear fed up with it. Which is why they ousted their Putin puppet, and are apparently willing to fight and die for their country if only they have the gear to make it a real fight. I think we assumed it wasn’t winnable initially. Everyone, including (obviously) Russia, thought it would be a quick annexation. But clearly Russia’s military isn’t what we thought. I also think it’s insulting to suggest the Ukranians are being “used as pawns”. We can’t force them to fight, if the will to fight wasn’t there they’d scatter like that Afghan govt which collapsed quickly after being propped after 20 years. In this case, Ukraine demonstrated to the world their willingness to fight for their own country. That is, at the very least a solid foundation to base external support on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2023
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  19. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Thank you for your insight and contribution okee.

    Seriously. I don't always agree with your takes, but I usually do appreciate fresh takes, and your takes, are definitely yours.

    Fwiw.
     
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  20. slayerxing

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