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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    If it’s important enough you make it happen though right? I mean how quickly did we scramble aircraft on 9/11 for example? Still seems out of whack.
     
  2. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    God bless you. Debunking the poster's Russian talking points is exhausting work - which is 100% the purpose
     
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    We did. The real problem on 9/11 was not the availability of ready aircraft and crew; it was the availability of air-to-air weapons. When you’re in an alert status overseas (or in Florida or Alaska) those Sidewinders and AMRAAMs are probably ready to load on to aircraft on short notice. (Remember, though, I’m not a fighter pilot) In the rest of CONUS, though, apart from training rounds, the rest are stored in weapons bunkers way away from the airfields, and it would have taken a prohibitive amount of time to get to the aircraft. So the aircraft launched with what they had, which I understand was just 20mm, not great for taking down airliners, and there was also discussion of ramming them. At any rate, the attack was over before any of the fighters even closed to visual distance if I’ve heard correctly. I don’t know for sure, but I’ll bet we have corrected that issue and alert aircraft the rest of the country now have access to those weapons.
     
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  4. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I've seen the reports as well. Obviously, there was a quasi-response by the Russian Air Force and yes, Wagner shot down 6~ Russian helicopters and one plane. We still don't know why there wasn't a more robust response from the Russian air fleet, but I was simply pointing out the situation wasn't a case where the Russian Air Force could decimate the entire convoy within a few minutes before they reached the outskirts of Rostov. One would think ground units would be the firewall in that situation and to the best I can tell, the Russian military complex in Rostov switched allegiances to Wagner within minutes, which explains why there was not a huge brigade waiting for Wagner as soon as they crossed the border into Russia. There is roughly 30~ miles of distance between the Russian border with Ukraine and the city limits of Rostov. Plenty of time and open space for battle to have units in place to greet Wagner. Much of Russia's military was right next door. Surely, a brigade could break off temporarily to handle the nuisance. None of that happened. Why?

    We don't know the full answer, but we do know the Russian military southern district was complicit with Wagner. Is that because it was all a ruse? Is that because Putin told them to stand down and let Wagner through? Prigozhin is very-well thought of in Russia, so perhaps a political calculation on Putin's part not to wage an all out assault on the men who've been the anchor of his front in Eastern Ukraine. I still find the Wagner threat dubious, because if the threat were really all it was made out to be, you're right, there's no chance Putin let's them within two hours of Moscow and we would have seen a more robust air response from the Russian Air Force. And then there's the quick phone call and it's all over with? Yeah, right. Something smells about that.

    Prigozhin had a chance to make world history, go down as a revolutionary, has everything falling into place almost perfectly and then he stands down in less than 24 hours? Of course they had to have a few engagements or else it would be too patently obvious to the entire world (Russian people included) that it was a staged coup. Did not Putin's buddy Erdogan do this in Turkey? And it took us a long time to confirm it, but once we did, we could see the rationale. Erdogan was able to shift international alliances and consolidate power in the aftermath. I'm not claiming the coup in Russia over the weekend was completely staged, but there are some things about it that don't add up. Until we know exactly what happened, we won't be able to better determine the fallout (if any) for Putin.
     
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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    It is possible. If it was staged, though, I fail to see how it’s served Putin’s interests. Everyone smells blood in the water now.
     
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  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I think we're already seeing it. Russia announced an investigation into Western involvement. Whether there's any truth to that or not, Putin will likely use it to galvanize the population behind the war. Perhaps propaganda for his soldiers. "They tried to bring us down in one fell swoop."
     
  7. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Yeah no chance this was staged. Letting a rogue element shoot down your own aircraft and March on Moscow with impunity is the exact last thing that helps Putin. If he wanted to elicit support internally, he easily could have done another false flag operation like he has in the last with pictures of crying mothers at the hand of Ukraine. If he wanted to redeploy Prigo and his guys to Belarus he could have done that too.
    No chance this was staged.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2023
  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    In America: two and a half years after buffalo-horned eccentrics take selfies with Capitol guards, much of the Fourth Estate and traumatized multitudes of Americans still experiencing night terrors.

    In Russia: the day after a failed military coup, business as usual grinding down America’s great proxy.
     
  9. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Okay, but to what end? Are they going to attack us over it? Bad Idea Jeans, but turn loose your wolf. Russia can’t even digest what’s on its plate. Is the purpose to galvanize the people? That might work to a degree, but eventually if you swallow enough BS you don’t eat anything your government feeds you, and who knows how close the average Russian is to that point after 18 months of this nonsense.
     
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  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    If the Russian populace would only emerge from their propaganda-induced stupor and realize that Murica is supposed to be calling the shots.
     
  11. pkaib01

    pkaib01 GC Hall of Fame

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  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    No, they have no intentions to attacking the U.S. It's seeing something like a savage warlord decide to bring a convoy on a coup mission and in less than 24 hours, doing a 180 as he's on the doorstep of the target, with no discernible resistance along the path. We can speculate all day, but we don't know why he did that. There's a good reason behind it that has nothing to do with he and Lukashenko being buds. In the event this does indeed turn out to be a psyop, we likely won't know the true objective for quite some time. Anything I say is pure speculation at this point. I have no clue why it happened the way it did, but I can almost assure you there is more than what meets the eyes on this.
     
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    You're asking a man (our comrade) who is allergic to the truth whether there is any truth to something? You might as well ask Putin what the truth is. You might as well ask Russian political hackers what the truth is. You might as well ask Nigerian princes who send out e-mails to Americans what the truth is.
     
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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Putin is well-known throughout Russia as a liar. The Russian people do not trust a word he says. After he says something, everyone that can do so gets on their VPN and starts searching for bloggers that are willing to tell the truth.
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia is back to firing chemical weapons at Ukrainian positions, this time near Marinka in Donetsk Oblast. Unfortunately for them, this time the wind blew it back in their direction.

    Russian forces fired a banned choking gas at Ukrainian troops, but then the wind blew it back toward them, Ukraine says

    Hopefully the Russians fired a few more chemical weapons to get an accurate fix on the wind direction.
     
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  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Looking bad for Russian soldiers. They’re starving for lack of proximities to large zoos. And other things yahoos believe.
     
  18. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    25-30K highly armed psychopaths. Belarus is about to be like Texas….
     
  19. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russian Security Council member wants Russia to consider a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Europe. Having nuclear weapons and not using them might be "frivolous".

    Russian Security Council writes articles about the need for a nuclear strike on Europe