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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Not game changers …

    Stingers

    Javelins

    HIMARS

    Patriot

    Bradleys

    Leopards

    Next ?
     
  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Why f16's shoulld have been operational by now Biden fd that one up but surprised they not using himars or something to take out the choppers
     
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    You mean on the ground, I assume. Yeah, we should definitely be helping Ukraine figure out where they’re bedding down and hit them with indirect fire. Stingers are a great weapon on defense. Not so much on the march. As far as I know, we’ve only given Ukraine the man-portable variants, which are of far less utility. We do have self-propelled vehicles with Stingers (the Avenger), but I don’t know that they would fare much better on the march given how vulnerable they are to artillery.
     
  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It must be hard for you to comprehend the world outside your basement. All of the weapons you mentioned have been a game changer at one time or another. And yes, they have changed the game. Ukraine, with the smaller army, is no longer retreating towards Kiev. Russia, with the larger army, is slowly retreating towards Moscow. A big part of the difference, is western weapons. Russia has lost THOUSANDS of tanks, and has had hundreds of thousands of casualties (probably around 50,000 dead). Many of the first Russian tanks to get whacked were destroyed by soldiers with Javelins. The HIMARS missiles extended the range of Ukraine's reach to attack Russian positions, and were essentially indestructible (although Russia occasionally takes out a wooden mockup of one), because they moved after they fired. They caused Russia to keep weapons caches and regional headquarters further back from the battlefield (changing the game), making Russia even less effective. The Patriots virtually eliminated the fear of missile attacks on Kiev, even stopping Russia's previously invincible Kinzhal. The Bradleys and Leopards are proving fairly durable (but not invincible) in combat. I believe you will stop crowing about the limited success that Russia has had against them after Ukraine breaks out from Russia's defensive lines and starts chasing them to the Russian border, or accepting their surrender en masse. You should wait until Russia's army is actually successful with something before you start trolling. It would be less embarrassing for you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
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  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe Ukraine will figure out how to mount a Stinger launcher on a tank. They've been fairly creative so far in this war.
     
  6. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Nothing is impossible, but I got to play in an Avenger simulator back in 2017, and the digital targeting system is pretty complex. It wouldn’t be a simple matter transferring it to another vehicle, especially a tank where space is premium.
     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Bradley Fighting Vehicle gets shot up in Ukraine, but protects the occupants and brings them back to base in one piece. Russia was not able to destroy it.

    Photos from Ukraine's offensive show how US Bradley IFVs are kicking butt even when they get blasted by Russia

     
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  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Here is an interesting fact: Ukraine has only sent 3 of 12 of their armored brigades into battle. Looks like they are waiting on a breakthrough in one or more sectors to commit the other nine brigades. Remarkable that Russia has its hands full with three of the brigades; it's almost like Ukraine is fighting with one hand tied behind its back and still pushing Russia backwards.

    Ukraine deploys 3 of 12 brigades in counteroffensive, main battle still ahead − Reuters

     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Europe's biggest natural gas field is scheduled to close in October. Local gas prices have shot up 30%. The Groningen field in the Netherlands has been associated with a series of earthquakes that have damaged Dutch homes. Looks like more business for U.S. gas exporters.

    European natural gas prices soar 30% as key source to close permanently after hundreds of earthquakes

     
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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    How about the German-made Gepard? Couldn't that take out helicopters without being too vulnerable to ground fire?

    Weapons of Ukraine: Protecting the skies

     
  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    It would seem that patriots could take out helicopters if they were able to take out MIG's with them.
     
  12. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Jesus Europe can’t help but shoot itself in the foot. First Germany shuts down nukes and now this. They’ve been living with this since 2012 seems like you bite the bullet until this war subsides.

    I don’t know if this or fracking or other type of gas wells but my understanding was usually earthquakes were associated with putting the wastewater back into the wells, not the actually well drilling itself.
     
  13. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    F16's would help, but they'd be vulnerable to Russian AA assets for the same reason you don't see Russian aircrafts playing a big role on the front line. They're probably better used as air defense and to launch long range precision guided munitions.

    These systems are difficult to deploy during an offensive mission when you can't suppress the enemy artillery. It's for the same reason that Russian Lancet drones are having a field day, because Ukraine has trouble bringing forward their EW assets.
     
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think the helicopters fly too low for the Patriot battery to see them, unless they were right underneath them. And the Patriot system would probably be even more vulnerable to artillery fire than a small, self-contained mobile system like the Gepard. I don't think you want the Patriot systems to be on (or near) the front lines.
     
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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The good news is that Europe has had a chance to install unloading and storage facilities to get their natural gas from other countries like the U.S.
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    A good article on why the Russian economy may take decades to recover. Putin's latest economic idiocy, seizing the assets of foreign companies in Russia in his desperation to fund the war, will reduce the Russian economy to rubble, if history is any indication. Venezuela is the obvious example of the failure of a nation after seizing control of the oil production. Mexico also did this in the 1930's, and by the late 1930's, its only significant customer was Nazi Germany. Zimbabwe was once one of the most successful countries in Africa, until Mugabe seized the farmland and mines, and the economy cratered. In summary, seizing foreign assets = desperation, which leads to economic catastrophe.

    Of the BRIC countries, only one is a complete failure economically, and that is Russia. As China's footstool, Russia may have to take a backseat to China in the BRIC name--maybe it can be re-named the CRIB countries, with Russia represented by a soiled diaper. Or, as the disputes between the countries grow, we can call them the BICR(ing) countries.

    Russia’s transformation into a wholly-owned subsidiary of China is now complete

    They're as doomed as doomed can be, I must say.
     
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  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    If you can’t win a real war, win a pretend war.
     
  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia starts opening new hospitals in Ukraine and brings in two mobile crematoria for cremating their dead. Apparently it's too much trouble (or too embarrassing) to send back the dead bodies for burial. The Brits are searching obituaries and counting gravestones in Russia to estimate the number of soldiers killed in Ukraine, and this should foil those efforts.

    Russian invaders using mobile crematoria to dispose of their dead soldiers’ corpses

    Russians cremating bodies of KIA soldiers to cover up true loss rates, says Ukraine’s General Staff

     
  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    This is true. In the offense, if you do not have air superiority, you need mobile medium-altitude radar systems, complemented with low-altitude radar and infrared systems. An example of this is Syria during the Yom Kippur War; the Syrians would have ZSU-34-4s (radar gun system) and SA-9s (infrared missile system) at the battalion level, moving forward with the tanks and APCs, back up by SA-6s (radar missile system) at the brigade and division level. This had the effect of partially neutralizing the Israeli Air Force (almost completely eliminating its ability to use helicopters in support) for a couple of days until Israel adjusted its tactics and regained the initiative. Generally speaking, the West does not utilize these kind of systems as much as the Russians and Chinese because its strategy is to gain
    and maintain air superiority with aircraft. However, the French do produce and sell overseas two kinds of systems that have shown good effect while on the march: the Crotale and the Roland. But since I have not seen much of a clamor for the French and Germans to donate these kinds of weapons, I ask myself if the Russian helicopter threat really has gotten more lethal overall or if there are just a couple of anecdotal events that we are focusing on but the Ukrainians really are not.
     
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  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia does have a game changer weapon--their nuclear arsenal. They just moved tactical nukes into Belarus, which Lukashenko the Idiot seems happy about. I would be curious to know who is in charge of deciding when to use these weapons. If Russian troops are driven back to the Russian border, would Putin send in nukes from Belarus, and blame Lukashenko for firing them? Which country would Ukraine (and the west) respond to?

    Putin says nuclear bombs in Belarus are warnings