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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia's military apparently tried to kill the Wagner troops as they retreated from Bahkmut. Seriously, you couldn't make this up if you tried. I don't know who in their right mind would want to ally with Russia after all the infighting they demonstrated in this war.

    Russian forces tried to blow up my men, says mercenary boss Prigozhin

     
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  2. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    I will not be displeased to see Lukashenko's head on a large stick.
     
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I have someone in mind for the spike next to his if it isn’t already reserved.
     
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  4. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    If it's about that "Come on man," I was just kidding.:eek:
     
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  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia calls Armenia its ally in the War in Ukraine, and Armenia says "I object!".

    Armenian PM claims his country not Russia’s ally in war against Ukraine, Kremlin reacts

     
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Former U.S. General Petraeus advocates for ATACMs for Ukraine.

    Retired US General Petraeus: ‘Now it's inevitable – we should give the ATACMS’

     
  7. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    No Mercy!
     
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  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Nah. Nothing personal. No idea what you look like, but I have very specific tastes when it comes to heads on spikes. I like the look of male pattern baldness with a perpetual frown that means to say “I’m an angry badass” but really just suggests “I’m a poseur who dodged combat service in Afghanistan during the 80s.” For instance.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    This is how wars start, JMDZ!

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    I just survived a "my head on a spike" scare...bring it.:D:D
     
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  11. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Oh yeah, well the other day, someone told me my father smells of elderberries - I'm a sharpened sword!
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I'll try my best to help you out here. After Russia invaded Crimea and the Donbas region of Ukraine in 2014, NATO countries met and pledged to increase their defense spending to at least 2% of their respective GDP. Germany then stated in 2019 it wouldn't be until 2031 until they would meet the 2% threshold. Trump was attempting to keep NATO members true to an agreement they made as a result of Russia aggression in Ukraine. Trump rightly called BS on Germany specifically and lo and behold, all the sudden now Germany is terrified of Russia and are racing to beef up their military. Who cares if Germany or NATO was offended by Trump holding them to their end of the bargain?? This is war, people are dying, agreements/commitments mean something. Give zero f's if it offends your sensibilities or hurts your feelings.

    Trump was actually trying to hold NATO to an agreement that would have made NATO stronger via increased military spending, which was the whole point of the pact to begin with. Said agreement was in direct response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2014. Notwithstanding, Joe Biden has not reversed that commitment, so nothing had to be mended. NATO are still expected to meet the commitments they made in response to Russia's aggression in 2014. And how foolish Germany looks now as they scramble to re-invent their military, because they were asleep at the wheel as Trump begged them to beef up their military.

    Your original ridiculous assertion that Putin was trying to get into Ukraine before NATO was "rebuilt" I believe is mere evidence that you enjoy playing in horse manure. Nothing had to be rebuilt. There were no NATO countries doubting Biden's commitment to NATO. Here's a quick rundown of how your team has handled Russia:

    1. Obama tells Medvedev on a hot mic: "wait until after my re-election, I'll have more flexibility to give you what you want."
    2. Obama mocks Mitt Romney at a presidential debate after Romney says Russia is our biggest geopolitical threat. "1980s called and they want their foreign policy back."
    3. Russia invades Ukraine in 2014 on Obama/Biden's watch.
    4. Trump is POTUS from January 2017 until January 2021. Russia does nothing.
    5. Biden becomes POTUS in January 2021, Russia almost immediately begins a troop buildup at the border with Ukraine.

    And somehow you think this situation is going to improve with Biden struggling to read a teleprompter from the Oval Office...
     
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  14. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Disinformation.

    June 9th, 2017:

    I am committing the United States to Article 5,” Trump said at Friday’s press conference, referring to the alliance’s principle that an attack on one NATO nation is an attack on them all.

    And certainly we are there to protect,” Trump added, saying this is why the US is “paying the kind of money necessary to have that force.”

    “Yes, absolutely I would be committed to Article 5,” he concluded.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/trump-commits-to-natos-article-5/index.html
     
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  15. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Well Trump disagrees with you:

    “Trump also highlighted the strong-arming he engaged in to convince NATO countries to increase their defense budgets. The former president conceded that he essentially threatened to ignore the treaty’s Article 5 commitment that an attack on one is an attack on all. But Trump said he did that because otherwise, the countries who were not spending 2% of their gross domestic product on defense, as NATO requires, never would have done so.”

    'I thought he was negotiating': Trump didn't think Putin would order Ukraine invasion

    he also called nato obsolete at one point.
    Threatened to pull out of the alliance.
    Publicly attacked allies while praising Putin, including once over our own intelligence services.

    among other things.

    so yeah, there were fences to be mended.
     
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  16. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Threatening to not do something is different than actually not doing something. For example, Germany committed to increase their military spending to at least 2% of GDP and didn't do it. They didn't threaten not to do it. They just didn't do it. It was actually NATO countries like Germany who needed to mend fences with us, as they weren't just threatening not to uphold their agreement, they weren't upholding it at all. They were asking the United States to foot the bill for their defense, when it was their heads on the chopping block, given their proximity to Russia.

    And yes, even Donald Trump was surprised at how little respect Putin had for Biden.
     
  17. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    So loudly and publicly threatening our allies is cool, because he didn’t actually leave NATO like he threatened.

    And I do find it interesting that you seemingly give Trump the benefit of the doubt on most things, despite even him admitting to what you defending not really being true. It’s interesting to watch.
     
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  18. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    You're just lying through your teeth at this point. Trump clearly stated, categorically, that he was committed to Article 5. Yea, he used strongarm tactics in an attempt to get other NATO members to hold up their end of the deal. What a mean thing to do. "Hey, your neighbor just invaded your other neighbor. We want to help you out, but can you pay your HOA dues? We're all in this together. Ohhh... you're not going to pay? Well then, we probably won't be able to help you if your neighbor sets his eyes on you. And those 16,000 troops we station on your property for free, we probably won't be able to do that anymore either. But you can ensure your security with our presence there if you pay your HOA dues." Terrible, terrible, I know. Good thing we have Biden, stumbling around everywhere, mending those fences so the Europeans can mooch off of our service members and tax dollars. Oops, he's actually still making them pony up, just like China. What a jerk, Biden.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  19. BLING

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    Trump definitely called into question Article 5, which was unthinkable for a U.S. President. Given his overall isolationist and anti-Europe rhetoric, and his positioning on Brexit, it’s kind of ridiculous to just dismiss it as “negotiation”. That was his worldview.

    That they trotted Trump out there and had him “walk back the crazy” hardly confirms him as pro NATO. Trumps staff had to do that a lot.
     
  20. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Why would we need to be pro-NATO if other member states are relying on our troops for security, but not paying the tab they agreed to? The alliance makes sense if everyone does their part. It starts making less sense when it's America just paying other countries to be our buddies, while risking our troops.

    Trump was so anti-NATO he sent 20,000 American troops to NATO's eastern flank. Re-deployed thousands of troops to Poland. More love letters he sent to Putin.

    The US plans on holding its largest European military exercises in 25 years
    Pompeo signs deal to redeploy troops from Germany to Poland
     
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