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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    LOL. Not morally wrong? What utter bullshit. NATO's members are absolutely morally and legally justified to take the actions they've taken and, as Uftaipan said, whatever else it takes to restore Ukraine's pre-2014 borders. Before it's all said and done, I hope it's 20 years before Russia can launch a military offensive against a kid's lemonade stand.

    You sure have some twisted ways of looking at things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2023
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  2. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I mean words matter. Counter offensive - meaning they are supporting a nation that was attacked in an effort to regain their own territory. all the while being super generous about making sure not to hurt Russia’s feelings too much. So I mean… yeah nato could escalate but I think it would only be the last option to save Ukraine.
     
  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Where do you get this crap? NATO is not going on the offensive, and NATO did not force Russia into this war. NATO is providing weapons and advice to Ukraine so Ukraine can DEFEND itself against the naked aggression of Russia. Do you not know the difference between offense and defense?

    If the war does escalate further and involve other countries, it will almost certainly be because of Russia. Take a pro-biotic and tell your gut to chill out--it is totally wrong on this one. And take a break from Fox News while you are at it; they are mouth-pieces for the Kremlin.

    Arming Ukraine in their struggle for independence is the smartest option we have to deal with the situation. Nothing else does as much (discourages future aggression and weakens a rival's military) while costing so little (compared to what we would have to spend in the coming decades to prepare for a resurgent and militaristic Empire-building Russia). We spent 6.8% of GDP on the military in the 1980's, and only 3.2% of the GDP in 1998. (In case you can't figure that out, that is a huge savings. Every year. Like $326 billion a year x 10+ years. Factoring in inflation, we are talking about over $500 billion a year in 2022 dollars.) The difference? The USSR collapsed in the early 1990's, and could not afford to spend much money on their military for over a decade.

    Short summary: The U.S. has spent less than $32 billion so far supporting Ukraine against Russia's invasion. If Russia is defeated, we save over $500 billion a year for a decade in exchange for a $32 billion investment. And the world becomes more peaceful and countries worldwide are able to trade with us. We could use that savings to solve some domestic problems, like fighting global warming effects or developing new technologies or improving education. Sounds like smart money to me. Do you keep your money in a mattress, or in the stove?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2023
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  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    long range missiles or sabotage? good news either way. hopefully it will break the moral of the russian invaders when they realize they are no longer safe within the borders of Ukraine

    Armed Forces of Ukraine destroy two Russian military bases in Melitopol (ukrinform.net)

    "Two powerful explosions were heard in the northern districts of the city. We have information that two objects, where the ruscists were stationed, were destroyed," Mayor of Melitopol Ivan Fedorov said during the national news telethon, Ukrinform reports.

    According to preliminary information, hundreds of enemy soldiers were killed. The General Staff will provide exact figures and complete information, the mayor added.

    Mayor: 'Hundreds' of Russian soldiers may have been killed in Ukrainian strike on occupied Melitopol (yahoo.com)

    Today is a weekend of hell for them, just like the whole last week of hell,” Fedorov also said.

    The city of Melitopol, with a pre-war population of 150,000 people, was occupied on Feb. 26 of last year, just two days after the start of Russia's full-scale invasion.

    Since November last year, Russian soldiers arriving from recently liberated parts of Kherson Oblast and the city of Tokmak in Zaporizhzhia Oblast have turned Melitopol into a military base.
     
  5. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    So you’re good with a full-scale war between Russia and the US to get us back to pre-2014 borders in Ukraine? Boots, nukes, the whole 9 yards?
     
  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    So, Obama was immoral to accept altered Ukrainian borders in 2014?
     
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  7. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    This ignore button works really well..
     
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  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Great masses of dead Ukrainians on the cheap.
     
  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    another one bites the dust (pending). what a novel this will make one day about all these assassinations. This one is big, Chechen leader who had been critical of the Russian military is near death from poisoning. Will Chechnya see this as a betrayal and pull their forces out?

    Vladimir Putin: Mysterious events continue as top ally in ‘serious condition’ after alleged poisoning (msn.com)

    Ramzan Kadyrov, one of Vladimir Putin's closest allies who advocated for using nuclear weapons against Ukraine, has allegedly summoned a leading doctor from the UAE because he 'does not trust' Moscow doctors. People have noticed Kadyrov’s surprising absence from Vladimir Putin's state of the nation speech in Moscow last month and his 'bloated' appearance at the recent meetings in his palace in the Chechen capital Grozny. The reason behind them may have been found.

    Several opposition sources’ claim Kadyrov may have been poisoned and is suffering from a kidney illness.

    The Chechen leader's luxury private jet was known to have made several trips recently to the UAE, and he has been less visible than usual in recent weeks.

    Kazakh journalist Azamat Maytanov citing his own sources claimed Kadyrov may be terminally ill, with poisoning the possible cause.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
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  10. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    I suppose balconies can't be the sole cause of their demise...
     
  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    apparently they tried to take out his head guy and the Chechen leader didn't get the message so they have now poisoned him. WOnder if the next guy is going to push for more investigations. from the same link

    Just last month a similar fate reportedly befell Kadyrov’s close ally Major-General Apti Alaudinov.

    Alaudinov, the commander of the Akhmat special forces and a frequent guest on Russian state television, picked up a letter that contained a substance with a strong smell on February 8 and ended up being treated in a hospital in Moscow together with two aides.

    Chechen warlord commented then that ‘an investigation of the assassination attempt, identifying those involved’ was underway.
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Russian media report assassination attempt on Russian oligarch Malofeev, who financed Russian militants (msn.com)

    Russian Kremlin-aligned media have reported that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) has allegedly prevented an assassination attempt on pro-Kremlin oligarch Konstantin Malofeev, who had financed Russian militants operating in Ukrainian Donbas.

    It is reported that the attempted murder of the oligarch was allegedly carried out by "Russian citizen Denis Kapustin, who lives in Ukraine and operates under the control of Ukraine’s Security Service (SSU) and is also one of the organisers of the Russian Volunteer Corps."

    The state-owned Russian news outlets recall that this person also took part "in an attack on villages in Bryansk Oblast", during which two local residents were allegedly killed.

    According to the FSB, Malofeev's car was planned to be blown up with an explosive device attached under the vehicle as was the case with the murder of Russian journalist Darya Dugina.
     
  13. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Ohhh I don't know, staying out of a Russian gulag and maintaining sovereignty is a high ideal and goal for Ukraine. As far as rebuilding Ukraine there is about 350 billion in frozen Russian assets that the International Community is looking at using as the "start" of a Marshall type plan for rebuilding.

    As far as anything "free" NOTHING is free in this life, however I bet a national referendum would show a huge % of Ukranians would prefer living under a Western, economic capatalist system, and NATO as compared to the corrupt Oligark economics of Czar Putin. This has been more than proven by the intense resistence to the Russian invader. A sympathetic populace would have greated the invaders with vodka and flowers rather than grenades and lead.
    Reports suggest outside of the eastern provinces and Crimea there is little support for living under the yolk of Putins tyranny.
     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Is “the yolk of Putin tyranny” a sort of egg tyranny ?
     
  15. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    Now I get notifications of a post by “ignored member” I’ve got two so not sure who it is:rolleyes:. Bliss.
     
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  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Murca much like its leader - old, tired, brittle, heavily medicated, disoriented. Sundowners snarling and lashing out at no one in particular.
     
  17. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I am not sure what the legal process for changing frozen assets to seized assets on an international level looks like, but I am guessing there will be eons of red tape with most of that. I could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    350 billion in stolen assets are not nearly enough to repair what Russia doing to NATO’s gun platform.
     
  19. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    You are not wrong, it will be a big hurdle.
     
  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    mobile bridges are in next round of equipment to be shipped to Ukraine. These, along with mine clearing equipment, demonstrates clear intent to go on the offensive at some point once the equipment is staged in theatre and training has been completed

    U.S. Sending a Key Battlefield Tool to Ukraine Critical to Retaking Territory (msn.com)

    The latest package includes more ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), howitzers, and Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, as well as Armored Vehicle Launched Bridges (AVLB), demolitions munitions and equipment, and other maintenance, training and support, according to the State Department.

    An AVLB is a portable folding metal bridge attached to an armored fighting vehicle. It will help Ukrainian troops deploy tanks and other armored vehicles across rivers, trenches, and other gaps on the battlefield quickly.
    ......................
    "Assault bridging is essential for combined arms operations," Watling said. "It allows armored vehicles to cross narrow rivers and ditches that would otherwise cause a whole force to slow down."

    He added that by sending this equipment, the U.S is preparing Ukraine to "continue retaking its territory" from Russian forces. Both Ukraine and Russia are expected to launch new offensives this spring after the conflict slowed to a stalemate during the colder winter months.