Dude, are you denying the Holocaust? Nazi troops rolled through Ukraine in 1941 and killed 1.5 million Jews there. It happened.
I think he was talking about the actual Nazi occupation in Ukraine from 1941-1944, not the laughably fictional (and not terribly creative) accusation of Nazis in Ukraine the Russians have used to justify their unprovoked, dastardly war of conquest. But I can see the confusion since we have Russian trolls on this site who pretend to believe that BS.
Zelenskyy is a Jew, so probably not a Nazi. That is just propaganda from the Kremlin to feed to the Russian people as a pre-text or rationale for war. I don't think anyone in Moscow really expected the West to bite on that one.
Well, when you steal, you assume everyone else is a thief. Maybe the same principle holds for being stupid.
By the same token it's not our place to make statements about or act on Ukrainian sovereignty either. Poland and NATO putting troops and conducting military drills on the Belarusian border is a problem that Belarus and Russia have to acknowledge as we would do the same with Mexico or Canada if they were not aligned with the US. As for Russia walking over the sovereignty of Ukraine enough has been said about why this happened. The US, NATO, EU and the UN may not agree with Putin and his reasons none the less they should have paid attention to his complaints and addressed them versus ignoring him. Now we are at this point in a war that benefits no one. Some believe this war of attrition is going to favor Ukraine others such as myself do not given the reality of where we are today (readiness, supply, etc.). Everything I have read on this board at this point is if you're not in favor of Ukraine and you point out the inconsistencies of what is transpiring well that's simply unacceptable. I still maintain the view that however this turns out it is not going to affect the lives of the American populace one way or the other.
Some in the GOP are opposed to US aid to Ukraine. And some are high profile. Possible POTUS candidates.
Put it in front of them and make them vote that way. You can’t go after Biden as the man who lost Ukraine in 2024 if you’re on record voting against all of the measures it would take to defeat Russia.
You can make the same arguments for any of the Eastern European countries, including ones in NATO, Russia could invade them one by one, and you could make the argument that it doesn’t directly affect us, and you could talk about the same risks that the conflict in Ukraine brings. I heard over and over how Obamas refusal to enforce his self declared Syria red line tempted Putin to go into Crimea. Now I’m hearing Bidens afghan debacle caused us to look weak and caused Putin to invade Ukraine. The premise being that any side of weakness Putin will be the aggressor. But now those same people are saying we should just let Russia have Ukraine and appease Putin and then everything will be fine going forward.
We have a national problem if this is shared by mainstream voters in both parties. This is the essence of MAGA. Only McConnell bit the mail on the head about the cost of not supporting Ukraine being far outweighed by what we are spending. As for those who argue that China is the main opponent, they now and fully understand know that US aid can stop one of the best armies in the world without involvement of our military— which is the best in the world. And that is an academic pint anyway because it is Russia that has invaded another country and has the goal of expansion.
He is a conservative. But his views reflect long-standing US policy for which there hasn’t been controversy until recently
Anyone who thinks China is the main threat (and they are, frankly) needs to understand that the best way to deter Chinese aggression for another generation is to make Russia suffer a strategic defeat in Ukraine. The absolute worst thing is for China to see that conquest has been normalized and the worst the West will do is shake their fists and maybe give some aid.
This war certainly does have the potential to affect the American population. If Russia succeeds in taking over Ukraine, expect the agriculture output to be weaponized. Countries that need food will do Putin's bidding, or they will starve. Starving populations become restless and eventually become violent. The Arab Spring in Syria was not initially about hostility towards Assad, but anger about the food situation. The drought that year ruined the agriculture and left most Syrians hungry, but the wealthy people in Syria could afford to import food. The poor people did not think their government was doing enough to make sure they got food, so they became restless. Assad responded with violence, and the people looked for someone to fight for them. In came ISIS, who fought the Assad regime with savagery and brutality. The U.S., along with Russia and nine other factions, eventually got involved to rid the world of ISIS. Expect this to happen more frequently if Russia has control over Ukraine's food exports. The USSR used to instigate uprisings in Africa just to see U.S. troops get bogged down. The U.S. military will be busier than ever, and U.S. soldiers will die all over the world fighting to keep the peace. The U.S. will have to boost defense spending back up to the 10-12% of GDP range that we used to be at to deal with all of the global problems that a resurgent Russia will create for us. This will be a major drain on the U.S. economy, and will limit our ability to spend money on things like infrastructure. All because we didn't do enough to support Ukraine to kick Russia out of their country. Russia will also benefit economically from controlling Ukraine. Beyond agriculture, Ukraine produces steel and rare metals. It also has its own nuclear power plants to provide electricity. Ukraine is a more economically successful country (on a per capita basis) than Russia, so Russia will absorb all aspects of Ukraine's economy as its own. That money will be used to rebuild Russia's economy and its military. Within 5-10 years, Russia will be ready to invade again and will look for a new victim. They will have new excuses for the new invasion, but it will be the same old story: Russia's economy needs a boost by gobbling up some other country's economy. We saw the same thing in the 1980's. The USSR was determined to conquer its way to a warm water port on the Indian Ocean, so they invaded Afghanistan as a prelude to invading Pakistan and getting their warm water port. Thankfully, Reagan was smart enough to recognize the problem and support the defeat of the USSR in Afghanistan, which was a great proxy war victory. Reagan would be horrified to see Americans trying to save a few dollars on support for Ukraine in 2023, as that might lead to a Russian victory in Ukraine.
Good news: Russia appears to be out of Iranian drones. Russia likely out of Iranian-made drones British Intelligence
lots of updated info here Ukraine captured an intact T - 90 tank Croatia preparing 14 helicopters for transport to Ukraine Russian "updated" tanks relying on 1980's thermal sensors for aiming shots because they have nothing better. Even the older leopords will have far superior sighting equipment giving them a big advantage. attacks by Iranian drones have nearly stopped. It appears that Russia ran out of the first shipment and are awaiting more. stopping those shipments or destroying them at the point of delivery before deployment would be a good thing. hopefully someone has a plan in action for that russian forces storming a town on the supply route to Bakhmut Ukraine has laid a 2km mine field loaded with anti-tank fortifications on the border with Belarus Ukraine finally getting some trucks meant to pull tanks and heavy artillery instead of having to struggle to move them with "civilian" trucks that are seriously underpowered for the task. Surprised that this is just now happening as the lack of towing vehicles has seriously impeded their ability to rapidly deploy artillery and or retrieve artillery and tanks for repairs/maintenance. Ukraine Situation Report: Russian Tanks Reverting To Cold War Themal Sights (msn.com)
Read Bill Browder’s book Red Notice and you will know why no western businesses in their right mind will do business with Russia. Even before this war. Sergei Magnitsky was Browder’s lawyer.
That was part of my point. Also, a degraded Russia reduces the risk of having to fight both Russia in Europe and China in the Far East.
As someone who grew up in a world where Russia was the center of the Soviet Union and it was our policy to contain and finally defeat their attempts to dominate other nations, the debate over supporting Ukraine just saddens me. McConnell hit the nail on the head. This was central US policy no matter which party was in office. Values of freedom and democracy are overriding values.
