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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    When you have to resort to calling people Baghdad Bob or comrade it makes it difficult to have a discussion. What is at issue with NATO nations and their preparedness for ground warfare is plain for everyone to see. We also know NATO nations have nukes and a nuclear war is no one's best interest on a global scale. As for Putin's claims and calling them lies I think you need to go do some research.

    To that end should I address you Uncle Sam or Yankee Doodle?
     
  2. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    It's going a lot better for Russia than it is Ukraine fact is it is not going well for anyone.
     
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  3. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Hard to have a discussion with someone spouting such nonsense. I can't remember a time you've had a valid take. It literally is like watching RT The war is going better for Russia than Ukraine? Putin was telling the truth about Nazis or Satan? You started with a little bit of built in cred because you're a mod, but I can't imagine many taking your posts seriously.
     
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  4. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Russians are the ones making advancements at the moment if you're paying attention at all.
     
  5. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    This is nonsense. They have less territory right now than the weeks immediately after the invasion. A full year of… nothing, except lobbing missiles into Ukrainian, attempting to destroy civilian infrastructure.

    Yeah, the damage to infrastructure is asymmetrical. Because Ukraine is basically not allowed to strike back into Russia. But lots of body bags heading back to Russia with absolutely nothing to show for it. The only thing on display here is the power of propaganda and that it can be hard to crack these authoritarian dictatorships (as we already know from Cuba, North Korea, etc).
     
  6. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    I think they have made some very modest advancements over the last month but at a huge cost of lives and resources. In the scheme of things the advancements are trivial.
     
  7. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    I gather long range versions of the HIMARS are on the way. They’ll go 300 miles with pinpoint accuracy. All Russian supply depots and staging bases will be in range. It will be like shooting at ducks. Russia has no answer and won’t be able to move for at least 6 weeks as the spring thaw comes and things turn in to a bog.

    Now there’s some military analysis for you Carp.:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2023
  8. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    I found this to be informative.

    Opinion | This War May Be Heading for a Cease-Fire

    Basically compares this war to Korean War and predicts a stalemate and eventual cease fire.

    While I’d prefer to see the Russians get routed, if the territorial lines were drawn about where they stand now, and if Ukraine became part of NATO and eventually the E.U., I’d say that’s a net positive.
     
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  9. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    The Soviets lost more than 2 men for every 1 Nazi soldier killed on the eastern front in WW2. Russia is very comfortable with a war of attrition. Given that they have more bodies to spare, any advancement or change in tide shouldn't be taken lightly.
     
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  10. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    NATO won't agree to this, because it would mean Russian control of the Black Sea. Ukraine isn't really an asset to NATO without the Black Sea. Russia would probably be thrilled with this agreement, because it would almost certainly kill any chance of Ukraine ascension into NATO.
     
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  11. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    The difference in WW2 they were defending Russian soil. Rounding up unskilled bodies and sending them into a turkey shoot in Ukraine isn’t likely to succeed.
     
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  12. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    What additional Black Sea advantage does it give them that they didn’t already have post Crimea?
     
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  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Much easier to supply and reinforce with the land bridge they have now through the Donbass to Crimea and additional territory on the Black Sea coast. This is the reason Russia is so focused on this region. They are not trying to secure the north. They already have Belarus to the north of Ukraine.
     
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  14. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    From the Russian standpoint, the war is just as essential as it was in WW2. To them, their survival is at stake if they don't have a sphere of influence over Kyiv or territorial gains that would render Ukraine useless to an alliance like NATO. They see Ukraine in the wrong hands as an existential threat. They would probably actually prefer to meet their security goals without having to occupy the entirety of Ukraine.
     
  15. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    That was then and this now. How much territory has Russia regained to this point? Not all of it but a good portion of it as it stands at this point. Ukraine is ceding ground they are not gaining any more.

    I'll ask these questions if Ukraine were to attack points of Russian soil (the motherland) what would be the Russian be? Why is Zelensky beholden to such a restriction? Hint he knows what we all know. NATO and European nations will not send in the troops or get involved in the ground war although he tried repeatedly to make that happen. All Zelensky can do at this point is take whatever we give him in the way of monetary support and arms. The lions share comes from the US because NATO and Europe don't have the resources to give him. Ukraine has become the puppet and cannon fodder beholden to an alliance that chains him to the floor. While he screams for support it comes in bits and drabs. The belief that Russia will run out of weapons and Ukraine will push Russia out has proved fruitless.

    To be fair we have all been told why he is chained to the floor. We don't want to commit and start what would be a potential WW III. Why is that? NATO, Europe and the US do not have the resources and a consenting populace to fight a WW III period.
     
  16. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    That’s definitely a school of thought. Whether that is really a primary driver, a delusional thought process, or just a popular rationalization excuse is up for debate. In terms of it being a geo-security threat that is questionable. What is more likely a threat is Ukraine trade has markedly switched from primarily Russian to primarily E.U. over the last decade or so and the prospect of a prosperous and free Ukraine contrasting a stagnant authoritarian Russian state is not one they want to risk.
     
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  17. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    You are welcome to believe that and yes there is cost of lives on both sides of this war. None the less the advancement continues.
     
  18. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    No not at all. Where do you get your information? RT?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ugees-economy/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_19
     
  19. coleg

    coleg GC Hall of Fame

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    So Russia is now more secure because it seems now it will have a brand new 600mi. border with a new NATO country. They will be so much more secure with several thousand tanks destroyed and tens of thousands of casualties. They must be feeling secure that Belarus, and Moldova have been notified of impending territorial annexation. I can imagine how much more secure Russia feels about their new underwater Black Sea fleet as well. Those are some serious security goals indeed. Superb planning.
     
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  20. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    He should have a talk show in Moscow. He’s making things up out of whole cloth.