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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    the return of these children should be a fundamental basis of any agreement ever reached to reduce Russian sanctions
     
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  2. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    Looks like their attempt to exploit Europe’s dependence on Russian nat gas was an abject failure. Won’t be an issue going forward
     
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  3. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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  4. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Philadelphia

    Glad this report came out. When the ski's were overrunning territory they were forcing Ukranian citizens on buses and forceably transporting them to Russia - where? Who knows.
    Probably work camps.

    Not being reported as much now because the Russians were in retreat mode until recently.

    I strongly suspect these types of actions strengthened Ukranian resolve too once word got out.
     
  5. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    NATO
     
  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Generally ...

    Ukrainians who hate Russia continue to blame Russia.

    Ukrainians who identify as Russians continue to blame the Zelensky regime.
     
  7. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Uft - One one hand, Russia has more manpower to throw at the problem, and that’s who traditionally benefits from a man-for-man exchange.

    I am not in your "business" but I do not think this is necessarily true when comparing an army with Western Combat gear and training against an opponent that is technically inferior but with more numbers.

    Of course everything is relative. The military history of the last 50 years however shows that Soviet / Russian hardware fails and fails hard against Western hardware especially when used by a competent force.

    Butttt - The British and their smug ass rolled into Zululand once with what they considered infinitely more capable hardware, training and tactics, and a huge dose of arrogance. There is a tremendous movie about it - ZULU DAWN. The battle for Isandlwana. Forget ZULU which was NOT the main battle, merely a skirmish. Zulu Dawn is quite historicaly correct and shot on the site of the actual battle. The Martini Henry carrying British wound up with an Assegai stuck in their gut.
     
  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Murcan bravado gets curb-stomped by rice patty farmers and chased out by goat herders. But licks its chops when Russia comes to town.
     
  9. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Because maintaining the current alliance, democracies that need public support, is paramount and has been perhaps our most significant achievement. Revelations like this help on both scores
     
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  10. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Reading the tea leaves US and NATO are having a hard time supplying weapons and ammunition to Ukraine.

    U.S. focuses on training Ukrainian troops to use less ammo
    Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, speaking to reporters after a meeting in Brussels with other NATO leaders, alluded to the growing concerns in Washington and elsewhere over stockpiles. He said Ukraine has “used a lot of artillery ammunition. We’re going to do everything we can, working with our international partners to ensure that we give them as much ammunition as quickly as possible.”
    .....
    “We are working with the Ukrainian soldiers in various places throughout Europe to emphasize additional training on maneuver,” Austin said, “so that as they place more emphasis on maneuver, and shaping the battlefield with fires and then maneuvering, there’s a good chance that they’ll require less artillery munitions.”
    .....
    The U.S. Army has pledged to triple its monthly output of shells from the prewar total of about 14,000 a month to up to 90,000 a month by 2025.

    The dwindling of ammunition stocks aren’t limited to cannon artillery. In recent meetings at the Pentagon, U.S. officials have informed the Kyiv’s representatives that it doesn’t have enough Army Tactical Missile Systems in its warehouses to spare for the Ukrainian military, POLITICO reported Monday.

    NYT: Ukraine Firing Thousands of Artillery Rounds a Day
    The West is also trying to come up with alternative systems, even if they are older, to substitute for shrinking stocks of expensive air-defense missiles and anti-tank Javelins.
    .....
    Washington is also looking at older, cheaper alternatives like giving Ukraine anti-tank TOW missiles, which are in plentiful supply, instead of Javelins, and Hawk surface-to-air missiles instead of newer versions.

    “But officials are increasingly pushing Ukraine to be more efficient and not, for example, fire a missile that costs $150,000 at a drone that costs $20,000,” the article says.

    According to Cancian, it may take four to five years to increase production capability of 155-mm shells.
     
  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    private satellite images provide this info to anyone willing to pay for it

    Edit..thre may be areas where satellite imagery is not allowed to be delivered on the commercial market. I would imagine that Russian has the satellite imagery capacity to see the weapons transfers. I am actually surprised that weapons have not been targeted as they cross into Ukraine or at munitions depots within Ukraine. It doesn't seem like convoys of weapons and track vehicles would be that hard to identify and follow
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2023
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  12. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I suppose at some point the US will throw Ukraine under the bus and blame it for its defeat.

    The justification for pulling out of Afghanistan was “Well, we tried to help. But they wouldn’t fight!”
     
  13. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    this here is why Russia can eventually win. We didn’t ramp up production. Russia may end up with hundreds of thousands dead, but they’ll win eventually they way things are currently going because Ukraine will run out of weapons.
     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Notice how everything has to be couched in orgasmic casualty estimates for Russians. Soon they’re going to be in the millions.
     
  15. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Some of that is legit concern, we aren’t a bottomless pit on artillery for sure. And I would be all for using Tow missiles and other things, since we have more of those and they are cheaper.
    But some of it is common sense training needs. The average Ukrainian solider has no idea on cost benefit on the use of an expensive weapon, or what the supply line risks are in using them when they don’t need to etc. so that’s a good convo to have. Whether it works or not, we will see. There are a whole lot of levels of military to get through likely before it trickles down to who it needs to.
     
  16. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    In a war no one takes that into account when you're being shelled or fired upon. You use what you have supplies and costs be damned.
     
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Army policy: "If you are going to make a mistake, make a big one."
     
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  18. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    We need to take the handcuffs off Ukraine. Start lobbing a few cruise missiless in to Moscow, St Petersburg etc. Start killing Russian women and children.

    Problem solved…
     
  19. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    yep. not rhetorical but was there concern of preventing Russia from capturing our tech? There was always a sense Russia would steamroll them. In hindsight we should have.
     
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine desperately short on ammo but is killing 1,000 Russians a day.