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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    “The U.S. Department of Defense has asked its forces stationed in South Korea to provide equipment to help Ukraine in the war against Russia, the U.S. military said on Thursday, adding the move has "zero impact" on its operations in the Asian country.

    U.S. Forces Korea (USFK), which has some 28,500 troops in South Korea, said the move is part of U.S. efforts to help Ukraine with its inventories.

    "This has zero impact on our operations and our ability to execute on our ironclad commitment to the defence of our ally, the Republic of Korea," USFK spokesperson Col. Isaac Taylor said in a statement.”

    Pentagon asks U.S. Forces Korea to provide equipment for Ukraine

    I agree we should panic.

    the strategic reserve should start being refilled now that prices are down, but that has little to do with Ukraine.

    the munitions is the one of the three that’s most legitimate, but even that impacting our ability to fight.

    US is running low on some weapons and ammunition to transfer to Ukraine | CNN Politics

    To the larger question, what are we doing..we are essentially kneecapping long term our second biggest geopolitical foe at a fraction of the cost of a war, without risking a single American life. We are sending a message to despots including China about the cost of aggression, strengthening the bonds with our allies, and displaying for the world the technology you face if you mess with us. Again, all that for about 3 percent of one years spending to date.
    It’s literally along the beat money we have ever spent to this point. The fact that people are trying to tear it down is bizarre to me, but I guess in the current climate it shouldn’t be.
     
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  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree with most. I differ on the degree of worry about our failure to ramp up hydrocarbon production. There are several good strategic reasons to do so that negatively impact Russia, but this is an example of the Administration failing to recognize and weight its main effort, subordinating other considerations.
     
  3. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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  4. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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  5. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    For that to be “priority” you almost have to assume they are on the payroll.
     
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  6. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    Now thats the type of woman who believes in 2A.
     
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  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Their position is so ridiculous and out of the mainstream for both parties that I am forced to consider that possibility. On the whole, though, the overwhelming majority of us should not worry about nor should Putin take comfort in what a mere three members of Congress want, no matter how loudly they want it.
     
  8. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Doubtful. You must be thinking of Maria Butina
     
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    US staring at a global war of its own making.
     
  10. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    So what is needed? Defense Production Act? Or just throw more money into M.I.C. to buy more stuff?

    Just how bad is the stockpile depletion? Part of me thinks it’s overblown to get more govt spending. Although obviously with something like the Javelins you figure the Ukranians did go through a lot of them (and replenishment is a real quantifiable issue on that product).
     
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    US is suffering massive depletion of its primary weapon - Ukrainians.
     
  12. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t have time to link it right now but estimated suggest the us only had enough supplies weapons parts etc to sustain full war operations against a major power for about 9 months.

    further, we produce only enough artillery shells to replace what Russia and Ukraine shot in a month during heaviest fighting of the war in a year.

    experts believe we would be unable to support logistically a mechanized division in heavy combat for only half a year at anything near max efficiency.

    our transport fleet is woefully inadequate to ferry supplies back and forth across even one ocean let alone more than one front like if we fought Russia.

    So yes. Defense production act. At minimum. Working with civilian industry to hire a ton more people and to open several new factories. estimates are that it could take over a year, minimum, maybe 2 to train the workforce necessary to make modern equipment. And that doesn’t touch on raw material issues.

    Defense industry suggests it could take a half decade to replace the javelins that have already been used!

    so yeah- ramping up all that spending to boost defense production may seeeeem wasteful. Until we need it. It takes YEARS to ramp up production. Have to start now.
     
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  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “For as long as it takes.”

    Translation: to the last dead Ukrainian.
     
  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh, come now, Bling. Let’s not quasi-insult the defense industry with those decades-old “MIC” tropes. Our defense industry is literally what is fighting this war (or doing most of it for us) on Ukraine’s behalf until and unless circumstances force a more active role to our own military. Every single munition we send to Ukraine must be replaced, preferably at the rate of consumption, which is damn near impossible at peace-time production (I believe a wise man with a screen name and avatar similar to mine pointed this out as early as March last year). As to your specific questions about the actual state of our stockpiles and the actual rate of consumption, I am afraid the general public does not get to know that and will have to trust (whether they like it or not) the military, Congress, and Administration. If your concern is profiteering (textbook definition, not merely making a reasonable profit), then that is valid and should be all of our concern. Of course, that that does not just extend to the production of munitions. Wars also consume at far greater rates things like food, wood, fuel of all kinds, and let’s not forget all of the other raw materials that we are giving Ukraine so that it can maximize what remains of its own arms industry. All of these things carry risks of profiteering (remember how much that happened during COVID?) as well and must be subject to government oversight. But my larger point is, if our Administration’s intent is to avoid or delay armed intervention, then it is going to have to embrace and reinforce the defense industry, no matter what the Left Wing’s traditional, pre-invasion view of it might be. Russia, the overwhelming majority of us should agree, is far, far worse than our most pessimistic views of the U.S. defense industry. Anyway, that’s my perspective.
     
  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, we have to start 10 months ago, but otherwise, yes, violent agreement.
     
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  16. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    What the heck do you think has happened over the past few decades? While you dream of stopping Hitler all of the European nations and the US were more than happy to trade with Russia and expand there businesses on Russian soil. They were more than happy to keep feeding the Ukrainian corruption. These articles from 2018 and recently might wake you up.

    I make no bones about my opposition to US intervention without just cause in this war and to suggest anyone who does by suggesting they are a Comrade in cahoots with the Russian cause is highly myopic.

    Ukraine celebrates Nazi collaborator, bans book critical of pogroms leader
    Ukraine designated as a national holiday the birthday of a Nazi collaborator and banned a book on the anti-Semitic actions of another national leader.
    NATO Says It Didn't Notice Ukraine Soldier's Apparent Nazi Symbol in Tweet
    The first of the four images included what appeared to be a Ukrainian servicemember bearing a "Black Sun" on the chest area of her military fatigues. The symbol, also known in German as "Schwarze Sonne" or "Sonnenrad," is rooted in Nazi occultism and has been brandished by far-right elements across the globe, including in Ukraine, where it is featured on the official logo of the National Guard's Azov Regiment.

     
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  17. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Do you think the corruption will stop when this war is over? The answer of course is no it will not. The question is who benefits the most from such corruption. The US and European nations have benefited highly over the years of corruption and that is what is being challenged at the moment.
     
  18. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Come on!!! There are fascism proponents in every country, and hate groups in every country. Russia has its fair share of hate groups, too. Feel free to research pograms in Russia to get a good idea about how pervasive it once was (and still exists). Should we invade Russia because they have hate groups (which would itself be ironic given the hate groups that envelope our own Country)?

    Russia using this as a pretext to invade Ukraine is laughable, and even more so considering Ukraine has a Jewish President. Even Russia itself has generally retracted from this pretext.
     
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