You asked what would happen if we introduced ground troops into Ukraine. I answered with decisive defeat for Russia in all of Ukraine, because that is what the evidence strongly suggests would happen. You did not ask how likely that was to happen. That is an entirely different answer. If I’m not the most open and strongest supporter on this site for armed intervention in Ukraine, then let’s just say that I’m up there. And even I have never advocated putting ground troops into Ukraine. Not because I fear what the big, bad Russians would do to us. And not because I fear it would be too grave of an escalation. Because it is not necessary for victory. American air and naval power alone would give the Ukrainian forces the overwhelming decisive edge to restore their borders. I believe more U.S. ground forces in Europe are absolutely necessary, but rather to deter and/or defend in the NATO border nations, such as the Baltics and Finland. I also would not recommend getting decisively engaged in Ukraine with multiple divisions when we still don’t know what China’s play is going to be.
I don’t buy that the US and Europe are in a weak position, especially compared to Russia which is in a much weaker position. Nothing is ever perfect. There are always domestic and international challenges. I don’t deny there are risks. The war will excascerbwte resource and economic issues, and may strain international relationships. But at the same time it has brought western together nations in a way we haven’t seen before, has prompted EU countries to finally carry their share in terms of defense spending, etc. Which trends prevail longer term remain to be seen. I would argue with a more aggressive Russia and more combative toned China this is a war that was going to be fought, sooner or later, somewhere around the world. Ukraine in some ways is the ideal place because it rallies Europeans to the cause so that it just isn’t the US. Putin has greatly weakened himself, and China has to be having second thoughts about rumbling into something hasty re Taiwan. Putin has embarrassed himself and Russia world-wide by over estimating his ability and under estimating western resolve. Also, given the Western / worldwide swing towards populism, and Russia is a key player funding that movement, this makes them an example of what failed populism looks like and weakens their ability from that respect. At the same time, the economic challenges presented by the war may give momentum to the populist right. Which side wins out remains to be seen.
The Pentagon knows we’d be chewed up in Ukraine. Which is the reason it has been a cooler head than the warmongers who have Biden’s ear.
I am getting more and more convinced that this is the sort of power play being called by the leader of the Wagner Group.
You and I are pretty much on same page concerning the war in Ukraine. Unless something drastically changes the Ukrainians are not going to get air and ground support from NATO. The US would have to act unilaterally for that to happen. I would also note air support wouldn't be limited to the border of Ukraine such as a no fly zone which opens a new can of worms. Where we do differ is my approach says take Ukraine make it a US territory and remove Ukraine from the table.
I am sorry but the war has not rallied European nations to the cause. You have multiple nations that have suggested a diplomatic approach would be wiser. Solve our issues and live to fight another day. Of course they have been shouted down at this point and the squabbles are now about who gets what who should give what and whether it is affordable for them to do so. This is where we are today and as these squabbles continue as the war marches on. As I listen and read about what is going on in the EU and what is happening in the individual European nations they are farther apart than they are united.
Russia Now Has a Second Frontline Set Up Just to Kill Its Deserters: Intel I'd expect nothing less from a former KGB boss. Just like Uncle Joe (Stalin)
Wow, so you're claiming there aren't EU sanctions against Russia? Odd how much there has been no rally to the cause since it appears Poland, France, Germany, Turkey, Norway, Sweden, Latvia, Slovakia, UK., Lithuania, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, and Netherlands all provided arms, munitions to Ukraine? But sure almost all have also called for diplomacy as has the US.
I fear there are others, like some on here, but in higher office that feel compelled for direct action in Ukraine. After 20+ years of war. It’s Staggeringly frightening we would send our service people into harms way…. For this.
Make Ukraine a US territory? You boggle the mind with such ping ponging positions. I don't know ANYBODY on this forum that has advocated such a position on this board. Until now. NATO membership, yes but NEVER "A US TERRIRORY" - That would fit nicely into Czar Putins claims of supposed American Aggression. Which, of course would be one of the few assanine moves the US could make that would rally Russian Confederation motivation to continue this insane power grab. What an incredibly BAD idea. Right out of the Putin "think tank" eh Cape! SMH.
I gave three options diplomacy, take Ukraine make it a US territory (it will never be a problem again), or continue down the path of destroying the people of Ukraine, global trade and the global economy. What is it authoritarian governments do when they invade other nations? They occupy them. Occupation is something the west is loathe to do but it is the only solution that works. All we need do is look at Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Having been witness to all three in my life time you would think the old codgers on capitol hill would have learned by now.
Make Ukraine a U.S. territory? Day 1, Ukrainian Freedom Front: Relief. Russia is leaving our country. Day 2, Ukrainian Freedom Front: Anger. Must get Americans out of Ukraine. They are messing everything up. Do you think Russia will provide us with weapons and ammo to fight the Americans?
If they want money after Putin is dead, they will turn on the oil spigot, or find a way to get oil to high-paying customers. How else will their economy recover? Most businesses no longer trust Russia: they are not a people of their word, and their products are crap. This leaves them with the option of selling a natural resource. It's either oil/gas or trees, and the oil/gas is much easier to pump.
Putin gave a speech today about how outraged he was when the U.S. killed Iranian general Suleimani. (He's throwing his buddy Trump under the bus, BTW.) Somehow killing one terrorist in Iraq should somehow make Russia look better while killing, maiming and raping half of Ukraine. Putin outraged by assassination of Iranian general Süleymani In related news, Putin has forgotten where he lives. If anyone has Putin's home address, please send it in a brown envelope to the Russian embassy in Washington, D.C., c/o "Putin's Home Address Gentle Reminder Department". I always assumed that Biden would forget where he lived before Putin did.
I don’t know why you keep suggesting that. Up until now, I just assumed it was hyperbole. But let’s just assume you’re serious for fun: The Ukrainians would never agree to that. They are a free and independent country. They don’t want to be part of the U.S. anymore than they want to be part of Russia. The American people would never agree to that. I realize this President thinks he gets to do all kinds of things unilaterally, whether the Constitution specifies the necessity of Congressional action or not, but even his own party isn’t going to allow him to add territory without statutory authority. NATO would never agree to it. Just as we would object to Poland grabbing a slice of the war zone and invoking Article V, the other NATO countries would likewise pointedly ignore any U.S. territorial acquisitions that trigger war with Russia.
You are easily staggeringly frightened. While actually no one is talking about sending troops to Ukraine is this not exactly what we should commit troops for? Defense of freedom and democracy in Europe. Other than here in the US (where the GOP is actively trying to destroy democracy) what better place and purpose? We send troops everywhere they’ll have us and some places they won’t. Africa for instance -when a special forces soldier was killed in Africa a few years back it came to light that US special forces are all over the place. We invaded Panama didn’t hear you bitch about that….
I’d be interested in seeing a ‘before-after’ post-mortem, I mean analysis of countries we’ve spread freedom and democracy to.
