This outcome will be spun as plucky Ukrainians, with no small help from the West, thwarting a megalomaniacal Putin’s designs to take the whole of Ukraine and the possibly Poland and The Baltics besides. Hypothetical: Putin falls out a 7 story window after shooting himself in the head three times. The Wagner General, his replacement lasts two weeks before he's poisoned. The oligarchs (left standing) try to salvage the economy by suing for peace and calling for elections. And now... A victory for freedom and democracy.
Not at all my freedom comes first and I will do everything to protect that. How many times do I have to say Ukraine is not worth fighting for at this point in time and you are right conditions matter. As far as surrendering and living like oxen under the yoke that is for Ukraine to decide not the US or NATO and our allies. If one wishes to live and fight another day sometimes surrender or a diplomatic solution is the only answer. Conscription of every male 18-60 under Zelensky's order is not forceful? As far as Ukrainians walking away from the fight I'm sure some have. How many have dodged the draft is unknown. During Vietnam approximately 570,000 were classified as draft dodgers. So yes I would say some Ukrainians are walking away. I am very appreciative for those that took up the call for independence 245 years ago. Keep in mind English colonies were fighting for their independence. That is not to say we didn't get financial support from France and Spain as they were at odds with the British to begin with not to mention the territories they had in what would eventually become the United States of America.
Obviously I've hit a nerve by pointing out the global implications of the war between Ukraine and Russia. As for the long peace period there may well have been a long peace period between super powers it was certainly no such thing between other nations on this planet and that is my point. There are ways of encouraging nations to play nice and discouraging acts of aggression. What is happening today certainly isn't discouraging Russia at this point in time. If anything it is making Russia more determined than ever. Why is that? Ukraine is not ours to hand over is it?
Not really. You just obliquely reference them. You never actually go through them with any specificity. You just advocate for the Russian position (often with highly questionable sources like "Revolutionarysocialists") and obliquely refer to the costs of opposing them. It is one of the most peaceful times worldwide. If you actually look at the data, the likelihood of dying due to political violence substantially fell in that period compared to other periods. It is one of the most relatively peaceful periods in world history. Because they have already done it and now can't be seen as "losing." But every nation in the world is observing the costs to Russia (crippling sanctions, substantial military losses, and a destabilizing draft along with the very real possibility of an enforced "loss") and those are now factoring into any decision to engage in similar activity. And the Russians will not have the resources or capabilities to try this again (which is what they were considering at the beginning of the war). And yet, your preferred solution, such as you do anything other than obliquely refer to "resolution," is to do exactly that.
So you believe nobody should honor the Geneva convention? Do you believe one side has been exponentially worse than the other?
Here is an interesting article about mysticism in Russia, and speculation about how much Putin believes in the spirit world. It turns out that a surprisingly large percentage of the Russian population, especially in rural areas, believes in the occult. The Crazy Mystical Impulses Sending Putin Wild in Ukraine
So you appreciate the support that France and Spain gave the United States 245 years ago, but are unwilling to extend a helping hand to Ukraine in 2022? Is it because they aren't respectable enough, or because Russia is not despicable enough? So you are o.k. with Russia flying their planes around the Korean peninsula in the early 1950's and shooting down American planes, but draw the line at providing ammunition to Ukraine in 2022? I can understanding the unwillingness to provide U.S. troops to fight alongside Ukrainian troops in this war. But weapons and ammunition? I realize that missiles are not cheap, but compared to reviving the Cold War, it is not that expensive. Ukraine certainly appears willing to continue the fight, so I say give them what they need to win.
Overall, we rate NoTricksZone a pseudoscience blog based on the publication of climate change disinformation opposing the consensus of science.
I have a problem with this narrative that if we had just done whatever Russia wanted the last 30 years, if we had not helped a half a continent democratize and grow economically etc. etc. Russia/ Putin would be our friend and we’d all live happily ever after. Sorry I just don’t buy it.
It is one of the most peaceful times worldwide. If you actually look at the data, the likelihood of dying due to political violence substantially fell in that period compared to other periods. It is one of the most relatively peaceful periods in world history. Because they have already done it and now can't be seen as "losing." But every nation in the world is observing the costs to Russia (crippling sanctions, substantial military losses, and a destabilizing draft along with the very real possibility of an enforced "loss") and those are now factoring into any decision to engage in similar activity. And the Russians will not have the resources or capabilities to try this again (which is what they were considering at the beginning of the war). And yet, your preferred solution, such as you do anything other than obliquely refer to "resolution," is to do exactly that.[/QUOTE] I think you're confused and haven't read everything I have posted in this thread and I certainly don't recall posting anything from "Revolutionary Socialist". Nor have I obliquely referred to the costs of opposing Russia as I have provided ample enough links to show the results of what has transpired to this point. Advocating for a Russian solution? I'm advocating for a global solution and what I have pointed out time and again it certainly appears Russia is holding a much stronger hand than the US, NATO and our allies. I'll also state I am not alone in this point of view. Given the trajectory time will tell as this plays out and no matter how it ends this is not going to be peaches and cream. When it comes to Russian resources or capabilities to try this again the US will not have them either nor will the Europeans. Neither will be in a position to deal with China, Iran, India, Pakistan, etc... I'll ask are you willing to take the loss when all of Europe or Ukraine finally says no mas? A global economy is at stake here and we are losing that battle on a daily basis.
It's not what I believe it's what nations do regardless of my belief in the Geneva convention. As for one being exponentially worse than the other once the convention is broken (which is apparent on both sides of this war) exponential doesn't enter the equation either you broke the Geneva convention or you didn't.
Well that's essentially the point here.....it isn't "heat of the moment". It's state approved if not encouraged. Premeditated if we are settling accounts
The Europeans bought it hook, line and sinker. No matter how many times they were warned they continued down the path of self destruction. As far as a live happily ever after world that's never going to happen. Not in my life time, not in yours, not in my children's, grand children's or generations that follow. This has proven throughout history as we know it.
What's going on right now is heat of the moment. Settling of accounts isn't going to happen while the war progresses.
Again...this isn't simply rogue actions in the field. You seem to be ignoring that obvious fact. When or if accounts are settled doesn't alter that fact.
I agree they are rogue acts and I'll state again when it comes to war no one is going to follow the Geneva convention.
I agree it happens in every war...by both sides. No question about it. BUT, this case is leadership approved and sanctioned. That does NOT happen in every war
