War in Ukraine

“The US has always supported freedom and democracy throughout the world. Why would we make an exception now ?”

Agreed, where will we kill multitudes, I mean spread democracy and freedom next ? Iran ?

 

If I knew of a gas station with nukes ... I sure as hell wouldn’t piss it off.

 

Any credible link will suffice, otherwise you're full of Putin.

 

Seriously, what a joke. Counting fatalities that happened 8 years after. Many died of old age by then. ROTFLMAO.
" The researchers warn that their estimates are associated with "substantial uncertainties". Their estimated death toll was extrapolated from a small representative sample of households, and respondents were asked to recall events that occurred up to 10 years earlier. They also had to rely on outdated census data from 1987 for their population figures."

A total joke.

 

Simple question.....is it your contention that the leadership of ANY military at war would condone/encourage, or at a minimum overlook it's soldiers committing things such as rape, kidnapping of children, mass civilian killings? No holds barred, no respect for Geneva Convention type rules of warfare?

 

I’ve already provided two. But I see what you’re doing. You’re goading me into providing more and more evidence that your go-to is ad hom.

 

How would the conflict in Ukraine have to play out for some of you to concede that Russia won ?

 

The agreement was with NATO not Europe in total. I also agree that Europe has issues and cannot take on Russia on their own yet given the current situation with Ukraine and what is being fed to the public concerning Russia's capabilities that notion doesn't hold water. So which is it?

Promoting democracy is one thing. Promoting democracy at the end of a gun and interfering in the national interests of other nations is a different matter all together wouldn't you agree?

Global trade is a boon to many nations and the world is no doubt better off for it. Yet everything that has transpired to this point threatens global trade on a massive scale. The de-industrialization of Europe is well underway and that is not going to come back anytime soon.

The Business Leaders link is in German. You can translate the page by opening the link in google chrome and use google translate to English.

German Industry Collapse: Companies Leaving In Droves…”Can No Longer Bear Cost Explosion”!

After years of catastrophic energy policy mismanagement and green energies dogmatism, the bill is coming due. A growing number of German companies are saying ‘auf Wiedersehen‘ or simply shuttering their operations. Others are preparing drastic measures.

German news site Business Leaders here has since begun a running list of companies that are packing up, or shutting down or moving their production and high paying jobs to friendlier business environments.​

 

I’ll bet you’ll be counting Covid deaths eight years from now.

 

hope that stays. I loathe the thought of a single service member in harms way for this conflict.

 

Easy - Ukraine surrenders.
What would have to happen for you to concede that Russia lost?

 

So now you want to qualify your statement with annexation. Crimea comes to mind.

Immoral or not it is a fact we live with. As far as a global order what exactly would that be and why does matter when the US is not threatened?

It is a fact that nations cease to exist on this planet. Many nations have met their demise throughout history and will continue to do so long after we are dead and gone. The wishful dreams of the Roman Empire, Alexander the Great, and Genghis Khan have all met their demise.

 

Surrenders and hands four oblasts and Crimea ‘back to’ Ukraine.

 

Pretty standard, what's in it for me, republican doctrine. That's one thing about the party that hasn't change in a long time.

 

No, that has been my point the entire time, and you are trying to avoid it, because you made a completely fact-free statement that we allow countries to invade and take over other countries all the time.

BTW, we heavily sanctioned Russia over Crimea and have not recognized that annexation, actions followed by the vast majority of countries.

The world order is the post-World War 2, post-colonialist, small l liberal order that was further extended by the fall of Eastern European communism. It matters because this period is one of the most peaceful and prosperous in world history, to the benefit of the US. Also, the peace and prosperity of this world order is moral.

So you need to go back to hundreds of years ago, prior to the existence of the US, which is the point. You can't name a single time that we have "allowed" a country to take over another country in literally decades, despite your claim. We have not seen a country absorbed in decades, for a reason.

 

Democrats and Republicans joined at the hip in their war lust.

 

There are many on this board that believe involvement in Ukraine is a wise decision. Personally I do not hold that view. Under different circumstances my view would possibly change. Under current circumstances this is not worth the price from a global perspective and yet again we find ourselves aligned with one of the most corrupt nations on the planet.

 

See, that was easy. Are you just not expecting a surrender or something?

Pretty sure us isn’t fighting anyone right now

 

I beg to differ this is not an inconvenience and we can see what it has done to Europe at this point.

Consider it an insult if you want while I sympathize with Ukrainians the question before them is do they want to continue to live under the current conditions or not? It is obvious that Zelensky, NATO and their allied nations believe they should.

As to when the war will end there is nothing that Ukraine has done at this point that signifies the end is near and victory is in their grasp. It is a war of attrition that has been decided upon and the longer this continues Ukraine will soon be in the dark.

 

When they are in the heat of battle absolutely it will be overlooked. When the dust has settled accounts will be taken.