War in Ukraine

It solves the problem in that

- it greatly weakens Putin. It bleeds him dry, both militarily and economically. He is not in a position to do it again. The best he can aspire to now is be a bigger North Korea.
- it sends a signal to the rest of the world, mainly China, in spite of our shit show politics, the west can gather resolve and there is a huge price to pay stepping outside of certain lines.

 

You have access to the internet do you not? A simple query on any of the items I mentioned would show you what I speak of is true. For instance the largest natural gas deposit is in the Groningen province in northeastern part of the Netherlands and is one of the largest in the world. You can do a search and find out why the Netherlands isn't producing natural gas to the fullest extent possible.

 

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It bleeds everyone dry of resources and economic stability with the exception of China of course.

 

My one bit of cognitive dissonance is that the “Ukraine doesn’t really exist” didn’t start with Putin. Catherine the Great was a big champion of that message, albeit in very different times and in a far more defensible context. She is fascinating and admirable figure, an actual progressive reformer. But she gets quoted a bit on that.

But you accurately recount why Ukrainian support is in our interest and the right thing to do.

 

Ok. We get you don’t support our war efforts. I’m just responding to your questions.

i think a healthy skepticism of our involvement in any conflict is healthy. But the skepticism should be based upon facts and logic, and the acknowledgement of risks in strategy either way.

 

Part of the reason this hasn’t been pursued is concerns about climate change - not to get off on another tangent.

But if your goal is to get Europe to exploit their resources that may be yet another positive side affect of this war.

Also, for the US, you have to look at both sides of the ledger. Higher oil prices hurt consumers but they do benefit oil companies and flow back through our economy that way. Same with natural gas, as nearly all of what we consume is domestic. Plus now we are exporting LNG to Europe at what I would assume is a healthy profit.

 

I agree with your point concerning debate on the matter. My answer is I don't support the effort of the war in Ukraine at this point in time. I do support our European allies and NATO. Had this war occurred at a different point in time my opinion may well be different. From my point of view we are holding a pair of treys and Europe is holding a pair of deuces in a poker game that isn't going to end well for anyone.

 

That is the goal. Europe has to have skin in the game and they cannot rely on the US to solve all of their problems. I do hope Europe changes their ways and becomes more proactive and less reactive in the matters of national security and energy.

 

I bought a pair of skis today made in the Ukraine (Blizzard Rustlers). Didn't really know there was skiing there - 57 resorts.

 

I will concede that among some there is too quick of reflex to dismiss discussion of military involvement. You’re not a patriot!! You support Putin!! That level of tunnel vision leads to quagmires like Iraq.

I don’t think what Musk put out there was totally out of bounds.

Nonetheless, a lot of the current war skepticism seems to come from the more hard core Trump supporters (and the anti-anti Trumpers) and isn’t particularly well thought out.

 

It hasn’t been in Germany’s short term best interests but they have invested hugely in wind and solar and their efforts have benefited us all.

I heard David Frum arguing the other day that the economic potential of Ukraine is huge as they have a large population, natural resources and if they reach gdp / capita levels of even the lowest nato Baltic states it would be a huge wealth generator.

 

A while ago I was wondering why it got so cold in Europe. I looked on the map and the southernmost points of land in Europe were at about the same latitude as North Carolina!! That surprised me a little.

 

I agree with everything you wrote with exception of your last statement.

New poll signals Americans are growing tired of support for Ukraine without diplomacy as the war against Russia drags on

• A new poll suggests Americans are growing weary as the US supports Ukraine in its war against Russia.
• The poll found that a majority of Americans want the US to pursue diplomatic negotiations to end the war ASAP.
• The poll also showed that many Americans are concerned about the financial costs of the conflict.

Poll Results

 

Because it led to a massive increase in seismic activity and they determined the likelihood of a big earthquake wasn't worth the risk. Meanwhile, both Norway and the UK are increasing drilling and France is delaying shutting down some nuclear reactors. The EU, and especially Germany, were drunk on cheap Russian gas. Germany's rocking economy was, much like the US, largely dependent on cheaper energy input costs than their competition. Now they are dealing with the hangover but they are dealing with it by taking their medicine and learning not to get drunk on cheap Russian energy again. I'll say it again, Russia is screwed long term because they are dependent on energy exports and their biggest customer has now determined that they will not get hooked on Russian energy again. Less income, less investment, dwindling production, even less income. for less investment..death spiral.

now if you want to talk about France shooting itself in the foot by closing nuclear plants and making fracking illegal, I would agree with you. Both decisions made while high on the cheap Russian gas. Same for UK making fracking practically impossible.

Dutch limit Groningen gas production despite energy crisis | Reuters

 

Cmon, that is gross exaggeration at best.

 

because China isn't impacted if there is a worldwide economic recession? A falling tide lowers all ships, even chinese ones, but freedom should not be held hostage to help economic prosperity

 

He's in an existential battle for his country and his own life. What did you expect? "Send us weapons, or don't. We don't care." Or: "We really don't want to impose on you guys, but if you have some outdated weapons that you aren't using any more, we could take them off your hands." Or: "No, we can wait till Christmas."

It just so happens that his goal of defeating Russia aligns with our goal of seeing imperialist Russia defeated before the USSR can be re-established. Why wouldn't we send weapons? As far as anyone asking questions, how would we know if anyone is asking questions? I'm sure the news media is not given a handout of the transcript from every discussion. As far as worrying about the wallet, this would be the cheapest way to finish off Russia's attempt to colonize his neighbors, by far. Yes, it costs billions of dollars. But how much did we spend (in today's dollars) during the Cold War keeping troops and ICBM's at the ready and tracking Soviet subs for 45 years? How much did we spend on the Korean War, with Russians siding with North Korea? How much did we spend getting Afghanistan to defeat the USSR?

 

Only a little, in the north end of the Gansu Province (central-north China). China is a net importer of oil.