War in Ukraine

Then we fight it on our own terms not Ukraine's terms.

 

Is that not what we are doing?

 

Absolutely not. Ukraine id the tail wagging the dog.

 

How so?

 

Europe has a larger population, but that's just people. Economic and military strength requires more than just people. The U.S. has more natural resources than Europe, especially with regards to energy, but probably also with regard to minerals, forests, fresh water, etc. The U.S. also has not had a major war on U.S. soil since 1865--Europe has had two since 1910. And each time Europe had a war, some of the most talented, capable and wealthy people left Europe for the U.S. And after each war, there was a lot of rebuilding to do. The much older civilization in Europe had some positives for Europeans, but also some major negatives--most countries speak their own language, dislike people from neighboring countries, don't cooperate well with others, discriminate against immigrants (more than the U.S. does), etc. The U.S. has the ability to move as one nation, Europe generally does not.

I would also argue that countries like Greece, Italy and Spain are holding back the rest of the EU economically, and this hurts the EU's ability to support Ukraine.

My philosophy is with great power comes great responsibility. There is no question that the U.S. is the most powerful country on earth, and with that comes a responsibility to try to shape events so that everyone on earth can have a better future. Clearly, this is one of those events: good vs. evil, imperialistic domination vs. freedom and independence. If we don't try to shape the future, the future will shape us, and it may do so in rather scary ways (another Cold War, etc.). The fact that we can do so without U.S. boots on the ground or planes in the air makes it that much easier a decision, in my opinion. Russia has demonstrated for almost a century that they will not cooperate with the West, and would only like to dominate the West. That is the mindset of Russian leaders, with the possible exception of Gorbachev: dominate or be dominated; cooperation between Russia and other nations just is not possible (except for temporary alliances to defeat a common enemy).

Having said all that, we are getting some cooperation from Europe. It just is not as much as we would like. The bigger issue is that Ukraine is winning the war, and Russia is losing it, which is a good thing for civilization.

 

And don't forget, Russia has previously made a claim on ownership of the ENTIRE Arctic Ocean. If they ever decide to defend or enforce that claim, I would rather they do so with a weakened military and a weakened economy. This is just one issue where the U.S. does not see eye to eye with Russia.

 

In what way did the U.S. or NATO pursue this war? If anything, we were too meek when Russia started telegraphing its moves in the hope (what this National Security Advisor does best) that Russia would not escalate, even though every indicator we had showed a firm intent on their part to invade. Only one party has pursued this war.

 

Zelinsky says give me money, give me weapons and we comply. No questions asked. We might as well hand him the wallet and say take what you want.

 

Thats bullshit. It’s hard to take you seriously when you say crap like this. It just sounds like partisan hackery.

 

Truth

 

We disagree. Zelensky has consistently asked for much more in weapon deliveries, more advanced weapons, and longer range weapons, and who could fault him for trying. I don't see us with anything close to " Zelinsky says give me money, give me weapons and we comply. No questions asked."

 

this post is disassociated from reality

 

This. Biden has been comparatively conservative on what we give Ukraine and has been careful to make sure it stays in the borders of Ukraine. Ukraine has asked for longer range missiles, jets, no fly zones and more advanced weaponry that was not followed up on.

It may get to the point where we decide to provide that stuff, based on the circumstances. But it strikes me as Biden has been rather deliberate about it.

 

You're beginning to understand my argument to its' fullest. Ukraine is a puppet and and an excuse to enter into a war by proxy. The great responsibility you speak of should annihilate Russia and be done with it. This is the error the US and European nations made in the previous world wars. No one wants to address the root problem.

As to the previous issues you speak of concerning different cultures and different languages the EU was set up to address these issues and act as a solitary focal point for all nations. In short a quasi US form of government that has failed to address the issues. You have the EU and individual nations that participate in and report to the EU

Yes it takes people and arms to protect their own and to suggest that Europeans do not have that capability or the brain talent to do so is nonsense. Their are also a number of European nations that manufacture and sell weapons, aircraft etc... They are not without mineral resources either (copper, tin, zinc, aluminum, uranium, nickle, etc...). They have fossil fuels as well natural gas, coal, and oil. Any guesses as to why these resources are not exploited?

 

“Annihilate Russia and be done with it”.
So glad you aren’t inn charge of anything.

 

We jumped right in once it started did we not? The sense that we did not pursue this war would have been to remain neutral. Instead we have pursued this war by aiding and abetting Ukraine.

Then we get back to my argument again if Russia is the root of the problem aiding and abetting the war in Ukraine does not solve the problem with Russia no matter who wins.

 

LOL. Europe is sitting on natural resources and not using them. Where do you get this stuff?

 

Call it partisan hackery if you want but this is exactly what we are doing now. Is it not?

 

I don't fault Zelinsky for trying one bit. Yet we do give him money, weapons and intel. Whether or not he sees that as sufficient is a different story.

 

No. See coleg post above and my response.