War in Ukraine

The lesson from WWII is to oppose an insane imperialist conqueror as early as possible. Had England and France attacked Germany during the Phony War period instead of beating their chests and talking about it, Hitler probably could have been stopped before the U.S. had to be involved. Germany had (and still has) a large percentage of its steel manufacturing in the Ruhr River area (around the city of Duisburg, in the northwest quadrant of Germany). If the British and French had captured Duisburg and the surrounding area (which also had coal mines and coal liquefaction plants), it probably would have been game over for Hitler.

 

Whether Russia is running out of missiles or not has no bearing on whether Putin is homicidal maniac. Putin firing missiles into schools and hospitals (and operating torture chambers in captured cities) is all you need to sustain the narrative of Putin as a genocidal maniac.

I hope you are never asked to sit on a jury. I could see you arguing that you cannot convict the suspect of murder if he doesn't have medium-range missiles, therefore he is not running out of missiles, thus he is not the axe murderer. In fact, he sounds like a nice guy, if we could ever figure out where the blood on his clothes came from. Case closed.

 

Yeah I’m not sure what to think of those screaming about needing to get out of this because of WW3. At least those on the right. I’m going to bet there is a high overlap who were outraged that Obama didn’t bomb Syria after chemical weapons and blamed Obama for Russian invasion of Crimea.

While I always think we should look for options for peace, I don’t see how we get out without forcing Ukraine to give up a substantial portion of Eastern Ukraine. We are in a position of strength but yet are told we need to negotiate from a position of weakness.

All of this ignores the signal this sends to China re Taiwan.

I would say there is a greater than zero chance Putin uses tactical nukes in Ukraine. I think whether to take that risk is mainly up to Ukraine. In spite of its shocking effect it’s probably not particularly strategically effective in winning the war, other than to demonstrate you will use them.

For Putin to use nukes against US or Europe would be suicide.

I can see let them keeping Crimea if that can be a card to facilitate ending the conflict.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=kSNo2FPQDQw&usg=AOvVaw1IKQ1wNJr_q-ltGVm7ONDE

I watched the program you posted. Very enlightening,thanks for posting.

 

Another Russian caught with drones in Norway.

Norway detains second Russian for flying drone (msn.com)

Norway police said the 51-year-old man was arrested on Friday at the airport of the arctic town of Tromso while carrying a drone and camera equipment.

It is the second such arrest this week. On Friday, a Norweigan court ordered the two-week detention of a 50-year-old Russian national, after he admitted to flying two drones over the country, potentially over critical energy infrastructure. In recent weeks, there have been numerous drone sightings near Norway's offshore oil and gas platforms.

The Scandinavian country banned Russian companies and citizens from flying over Norwegian territory after Russia invaded Ukraine in February. Violating that ban is punishable by a three-year prison term.

Norway more recently also ratcheted up security following explosions that targeted the vital Nord Stream gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea last month.

 

Use of nukes is not up to Ukraine. Ukraine does not have nukes. Ukraine lost nuclear status June 2, 1996.

Here Is Why Ukraine No Longer Has Nuclear Weapons
While Belarus and Kazakhstan agreed to transfer their nuclear weapons over to Russia, Ukraine did not. Instead, Ukraine signed the Budapest Memorandum with Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

In return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons, the country was given security assurances against threats or the use of force. Formally, the weapons were now controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.
.....
Unfortunately, the Budapest Memorandum isn't an official treaty and isn't legally binding. Also, Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, so it isn't protected by Article 5 of the NATO charter.

 

Not what I meant. It is up to Ukraine if they want to not negotiate and risk the use of nukes on their turf or give up territory in order to avoid the threat.

 

A bunch of new conscripts didn’t take well to their impending slaughter and instead fragged 11 of their fellow troops (presumably non conscripts). Brings a smile to by face.

‘Just a Shit Show’: Putin’s Troops Gearing Up for Ukraine Are Gunned Down on Russian Soil Instead


The source contradicted the defense ministry’s account, saying three men had actually taken part in the shooting. One of them reportedly fled as the two others were shot.

The witness described a “field of corpses” after the apparent attack, calling it “just a shit show

 

Thanks for clarifying. You are correct in that it appears Ukraine (the tail) in wagging the dog (NATO and allies). Zelinsky hollers for more money, weapons and support and we give it to him.

 

They were invaded by a foreign power. I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to holler. I don’t think it is unreasonable for NATO to listen. This notion that Ukraine owes anything to Russia seems strange to me.

 

Well, Ukraine is doing all the hard work in this scenario. And, if they are able to win this war, they will have made the world a safer place, which benefits all countries (except maybe Russia).

 

That’s right the trade went something like this.



You think that might be why Ukraine isn’t interested in any more trades.

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for them to holler either as would any other nation that has been invaded. It is not unreasonable for NATO, the UN and others to listen either. The question is whether it is unreasonable for NATO, the UN or others to get involved.

 

Yes Ukraine at the moment is holding their own at the moment. Whether the world will be any safer after the war is over is yet to be determined.

 

Get no complaint from me concerning the agreement. I can think of many agreements nations have reneged on. The US has done it's fair share of reneging as well so this is nothing new.

 

Really? The question is should we be involved?

Unbelievable.

 

100% agree. I understand a difference of opinion in the degree to which we are involved, but not an argument that we should just stand by and say, “Meh, what are you gonna do? They got, like, nukes and stuff.”

 

Yes, that is the question. I would answer yes as if we don’t, it signals Russia that they can do it again, elsewhere, and perhaps more importantly it signals to China that they can roll over Taiwan or anywhere else that they wish.