How should our Pro-Russian forces frame the glorious retreat of the Russian forces out of another town?
I cannot speak for the Lyman withdrawal yet, but apparently you're the one who does not know the difference between a panicked retreat and an orderly withdrawal. Two weeks ago when the Russians turned tail and ran leaving serviceable military equipment including tanks, self-propelled artillery pieces and large quantities of artillery shells you used language to the effect describing the retreat as an orderly withdrawal. No rational well led military voluntarily abandons equipment in an orderly withdrawal.
“we have no choice but to support Ukraine for as long as they are willing and able to fight.” To the contrary, it was never necessary to fight a Russia to the last dead Ukrainian. “What Russia might do if losing is concerning.” Are you not more concerned about what the neocons, and their European lackies, are doing to Ukrainians so they don’t lose another proxy war ? “But what is Russia going to do if it wins ? That is even more concerning.” Wait, I thought that ragtag holdover Soviets were bumbling their way to defeat ? Now they have designs on Poland ?
I heard it was a thousand tanks and half the surviving Russian troops were frost bitten in early September.
The Americans in Bastogne had a fighting attitude, as exemplified by Gen. McAuliffe's "Nuts!" reply to the surrender demand. The Russians throughout this war have had at most, a plundering and raping attitude, and little stomach for fighting with a determined enemy. Large numbers of Russians have either surrendered or shot themselves to get out of this war. The U.S. also had great success in driving the German army back towards Germany, and the confidence that goes with that. The Russians have been retreating for months now. McAuliffe also knew that help was not too far away. Two totally different situations.
Oh, I'm right there with you in agreement on that. I just think it will escalate quite a bit from here before it's settled one way or the other. Putin is 70 and I don't think he's going to spend a lot of time in a long, drawn out battle of attrition with the Ukrainian army. I agree with you we have no choice but to back Ukraine, but just like his referendums in the east give him a proxy to significantly up his ante, when he does up the ante, that will give the West the cover to do what they likely already want to do...
Funny but it wouldn't surprise me possibly for the first time in its history that winter in Ukraine could end up being an enemy rather than an ally of Russia. There is no telling how the poorly trained recently conscripted Russian troops will perform under duress when they're deployed to Ukraine.
As fine an example of projection as I’ve seen, on this thread, in several minutes. It is the Ukrainians who are conscripting, not the Russians. And the reason the Ukrainians are making desperate advances is that they know they can’t fight in the mud and that Russia was made for winter.
When people talk about the Russian winter winning them wars, they are usually referring to three instances: Swedish invasion (1708-1709), French invasion (1812), and German invasion (1941-1943). In all three cases, the Russian winter was indeed a key enabler to defeating the invader on Russian soil. But also in every case the enemy was an actual existential threat to the Russian state. For those who like metaphors, imagine yourself standing over a shark tank. If you dropped your expensive watch into said shark tank, you would likely have good reason to think hard before jumping in after it, and you would be an idiot if you ultimately decided to do so. Now imagine it was your 5-year-old daughter who fell into the same tank. My guess is, you would jump in without hesitation. In this case, the Russian (actually, Ukrainian) winter is the shark tank. It’s one thing to dive into it when it’s a matter of national survival; it’s quite another when it’s just serve to serve the ego of a wannabe tough guy. The morale, enthusiasm, and resolution to face privation and danger seems to be all on one side here. And just drawing a line on the ground and saying, “Well, this is now Russia” is not likely to fool most Russians at the tip of the spear. And it surely is not going to fool the Ukrainians.
Yep, so little for them to fight for personally. Morale is bad. No sense of fighting for the greater good. Why get shot up or blown up for that?
That seems like an odd interpretation of the situation. Putin believed he could crush Ukraine in a matter of days when he started this unprovoked war. And for a while, it looked like that would happen. The emergence of Zelensky as a leader, the resolve of the Ukrainian military and citizens, and the alliance with NATO has completely changed the outlook. Putin and the Russian army are being systematically defeated, there is no other way to look at it. Putin, threatening nukes, conscripting hundreds of thousands of untrained citizens to fight as his people flee Russia, facing economic devastation and 'annexing' territory, as his troops run from the 'annexed' territory, is desperation. Putin will be lucky if he is not assassinated by his own generals.
You don't think Ukraine is going to completely run out Russia out of Europe and into Asia, do you? Would be amazing if they did, but I think you are being too optimistic, they'll probably stop with Crimea.
Since you’re there on the contact lines, can I ask you some more questions about the Russian troops ?
Like the National Guard in his article which would pain you to read ... “It is still possible that they take Lyman and consolidate control of Kupyansk, but this would likely represent the culmination of Ukrainian offensive capability. For now, the area around Lyman is a killing zone that exposes attacking Ukrainian troops to Russian air and ground fires.” Note: he said he’s suspending the thread, for a few days, as it has been beset by a herd sneering trolls. I can attest that this is true.
