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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I do believe that AMLO is one of the few great leaders. He was never ensconced in Covid terror and ended restrictions before almost any other country. He faces a sometimes hostile press daily and answers questions himself. He says no to the US. He refused to impose sanctions on Russia. And now he’s doing his damndest to broker peace between Biden and Putin ...

    A Push for Peace in Ukraine
     
  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Russia's early resilience to sanctions is fading - its economy is on the back foot and Moscow could soon lose its place among the world's energy superpowers. (msn.com)

    But experts told Insider's Jennifer Sor that, underneath that defiance, Russia's economy is withering. "What they propose to do is a recipe for long-term stagnation," Yuriy Gorodnichenko, a UC Berkeley economist, told my colleague, drawing comparisons to to the isolated nations like North Korea, Afghanistan, and Cuba.
    ...............................................................................
    "What happens is that [isolationism] reduces the number of products that [Russia] can buy," Jay Zagorsky, a markets professor at Boston University, told Insider. "It can only buy Indian agricultural goods, it can only buy Chinese manufactured goods, that sort of thing. And when you limit yourself to one particular country you often end up not getting the highest quality, or the best price."

    As of September, Russian seaborne oil exports hit their lowest level in a year, with discounted crude becoming a less attractive option for Asian customers in yet another sign of economic calamity.

    And once the EU embargo kicks in this December, Russia's energy sector could be left with an extra 2.2 million barrels per day of spare oil to hand off.
     
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  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    sounds like command structure has broken down and FSB is fighting Chechens who are both fighting Wagner trying to split town with what they could steal. Hopefully they are all trapped with Ukrainian forces in control of fire positions dominating the reiver and preventing any river crossings

    Russian troops boxed in by Ukrainian forces and Dnieper River, barge carrying supplies to Russian troops sinks (msn.com)

    upload_2022-9-20_20-45-16.png
    Russian troops have become boxed in between advancing Ukrainian forces in the southern Kherson region and the Dnieper River, with access to supplies and eastern routes blocked.

    Ukrainian forces sank a Russian barge transporting troops, equipment and weapons across the major river crossing, Ukraine’s Operational Command South said, according to Pravda Tuesday. "Attempts to establish an alternative crossing over the River Dnieper near Nova Kakhovka and Kozatske were unsuccessful," the command said. "A barge carrying weapons, equipment and military personnel joined the occupiers’ underwater fleet."
    ...............
    Reports of guerrilla warfare in the city of Kherson reportedly broke out over the weekend between Russian troops who are looking to take what they can before they "flee." A top adviser to Ukraine’s president and a vocal critic on social media, Mykhailo Podolyak, said Sunday that the fighting in downtown Kherson showed a "manifestation of growing tension" between the Kremlin-linked militant force the Wagner Group, Chechen forces led by Moscow-appointed Ramzan Kadyrov, Russian soldiers and intelligence officials affiliated with Russia’s Federal Security Service – the successor agency to the KGB. "[The] number of ‘domestic conflicts’ is increasing. Parties divide the loot before [they] flee considering the news about Armed Forces of Ukraine approach," he added.
    ...........
    But retreating east from Kherson will prove more difficult for Russian forces who have to contend with the Dnieper River, a major waterway that runs the entire length of the country and splits its eastern regions in the south from central and western Ukraine. "As we’ve established fire control over river crossings and logistical routes in the region, these (enemy) units have to realize they are stuck between our forces and the (Dnipro) river bank," Ukrainian Operational Command South spokesperson Natalya Humeniuk told a Ukrainian news outlet Monday.
     
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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, not NATO, but otherwise correct.
     
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  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Putin calling up 300k reservists, claiming parts of Ukraine as Russian and threatening nuclear strikes if any part of his new Russia is attacked. It will be interesting to see how many of the 300k reservists show up and what happens if lots don't
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
  6. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    I think I read they just upped the consequences of desertion, sabotage, etc.

    You know, the kind of thing one just has to do to a group with such amazing esprit de corps.
     
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  7. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    So "let me keep Donbas and Donetsk or I may start an extinction level nuclear war". Makes sense. With all the nuclear chest beating they engage in, surely they realize that mother Russia would cease to exist.
     
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  8. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Sorry - The Coalition or whatever we called it.
     
  9. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    What a tragedy, I guess Putin just can't see the writing on the wall.

    So it's escalation, because of a dictators stupid pride, so 18th century.

    For what? Assuming that Russia could actually conquer Urkraine my gut tells me
    that the area would devolve into nonstop guerilla war akin to Afghanistan or Vietnam.

    This is INSANE!

    Industrialized murder is what it is.

    Ukrainians and Russians deserve better than this.

    And if this effort fails?

    Nukes next??

    Dictator is out of control. Murdering his own ethnic peoples. Damn Russians occupy 40% of the planets land above water as it is.

    What does the West do? Keep feeding Ukrainian military equipment to slaughter those poor Russian boys?

    I need that vomit emoticon!

    Well defense industry stocks will go up soon.......

    Man this sucks.
     
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  10. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I appreciate this thread and IMO this "war" is the most significant foreign policy issue confronting the USA, NATO and Western Democracies.

    I hope the US voters recognize this issue come the elections.

    The die is cast, the monster of the old Soviet Union is trying to resurrect itself.
    We cannot let the Ukrainians lose. They are shedding their blood to stop it, if they do not prevail, Western Europe is next followed by the USA.

    This has become THE battleground, it will soon exceed Korea and Vietnam in cost and destruction.

    The choice is Western Democracy or Totalitarian rule!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
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  11. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    This might be Putin’s out thinking everybody. lol. Threatening to expand the battle before sueing for peace.
     
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  12. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    And what makes you think these 300 k reservist will:
    A: show up?
    B: be properly trained?
    C: be properly equipped?

    Oops I just realized I just repeated a lot of what you just said. lol
     
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  13. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Based on our history with the draft, I am sure it will be very unpopular.

    Seems like an act of desperation.
     
  14. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree with everything you said, but this last part in particular.

    There are no good outcomes, only less bad ones.

    All thanks to a mad man.
     
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  15. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Several of you have posted that the US should "up the ante" with military hardware and support. Personally speaking I have generally agreed with the Biden administrations "limited and restricted" policy of conventional weapons support for the conflict.
    Obviously for fear of escalation - nuclear escalation........

    Well it wasn't Biden, that just announced to the world his desire to "double" the stakes in Ukraine.

    In my view this is another one of those unique moments in history where the West has a decision to make - VERY MUCH akin to the "Munich Aggrement"

    We gave the dictator, Putin, Georgia, we gave the dictator, Putin, Crimea, we stood by in Syria..........OK, it's time..........................

    Russia is WEAK with conventional military. That has been proven, if he doubles the stakes, we should too...........

    NATO airpower and Ukranian airspace dominance: YES
    NATO heavy weapons: YES
    NATO logistical and command infrastructure support: YES
    NATO Satellite, Reconnissance and Intelligence (FULL CAPABILITIES) YES

    We draw the line............HERE / NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
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  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I could be wrong about all this. On the other hand, what if my disputants are wrong about all this ?

    Sign of Russian desperation or sign of Russian resolve ?

    What we know ...

    We know that the US has been aiming to remove Putin and weaken Russia for years. Biden, Blinken and Austin merely said the quiet part out loud recently.

    This is the war that the US has been wanting. Maybe this is Putin preparing to finish it ?
     
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  17. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I was disappointed that the President had the attention of the General Assembly and (when he was talking about Russia) only spoke to the problem without proposing what the U.S. was further prepared to do about it and/or what he wanted the GA to do about it. Russia has suffered reverses on the battlefield and has decided not to save face and end this thing now but rather to escalate and push us closer to an irreversible brink. I agree that we, too, must escalate. I don’t want war with Russia and/or China anymore than anyone else on this site; I have all of the same people and things that I would prefer not to risk. But we cannot allow this disgusting Putin regime even a limited military victory in Ukraine. We need to defeat his armed forces, cripple his economy, and undermine his power at home. Then watch with delight as he has to face his people.
     
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  18. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    It may be cultural as well. It was a big part of the defense of Stalingrad. The Not one step backward order was enforced with a bullet to the head if you tried to defect run. There were special political officers charged with just that duty
     
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  19. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Putin placed his bet, time to call and show cards....................
     
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  20. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    Stalingrad was home turf, Ukraine is not. People fight a hell of a lot harder for their homeland.