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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. rajinGator

    rajinGator Moderator VIP Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Russian soldiers and officers surrendering in Kharkiv direction - Militarnyi

    During the counteroffensive actions of the Ukrainian military, a significant amount of the invaders’ manpower surrendered.

    The officers of the Russian Army are also surrendering.

    In particular, in the Kharkov direction, the Ukrainian military captured the invaders, among whom was a lieutenant colonel of the Russian army.
     
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  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Russian Force Sees 'Mass Desertion' Amid Putin's Recruitment Push: Report (msn.com)

    A group of Russian troops in a Russian-backed region of Moldova is experiencing "mass desertion" during a push to recruit contract workers in the area, according to Ukrainian military intelligence.

    The Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine's Defense Ministry wrote in a new report Thursday that residents of Transnistria are refusing to sign contracts with the Russian army despite promises of "high cash payments, social packages, and likely housing." The report also said that there had been an increase in the number of desertion cases among what it described as the "operational group of Russian troops in Transnistria."

    "And due to the limited number of military contingents, the Russians cannot attract the necessary resources to search for and return the missing," it added.
     
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  5. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    I do not need to refuse anything that is bad for Russia there is ample evidence of that on this thread. My intent is to show war is not peaches and cream. I believe @uftaipan and I agree on that point as do others. Painting a rosy picture for one side without providing the true scope of what is transpiring does not bode well for anyone especially where US intervention is involved.

    We are witnessing the effects of globalization and a global economy going down the drain. Europe feels the effect through gas shortages and the world feels the effects through wheat shortages and rare earth materials. That alone has given everyone pause to reevaluate national interests and search for solutions. Solutions that will take years to materialize. We all understand this is a war of attrition. How far do you think heads of states will go? How much suffering do think people of European nations are willing to endure much less the US?

    Anti-NATO Protests In Europe Likely To Increase
    For all European countries, the question is the same: abandon the sanctions or face social chaos. The coercive measures against Moscow do not benefit European citizens and do not influence the military scenario in Ukraine, so they simply have no reason to exist. Either European countries adopt a sovereign stance and prioritize their own interests in foreign policy, or the bloc will suffer irreversible damage in its social structures.
    EU, US step up Russian aluminum, nickel imports since Ukraine war
    The European Union and United States have ramped up buying key industrial metals from Russia, data showed, despite logistical problems spurred by the war in Ukraine and tough talk about starving Moscow of foreign exchange revenue.

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    The metal shipments highlight the West’s difficulty in pressuring Russia’s economy, which has performed better than expected and seen its rouble currency surge as buoyant oil revenue has helped offset the impact of sanctions.

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    EU and US imports of Russia’s main base metal products aluminum and nickel during March-June increased by as much as 70%, official trade data compiled by Reuters from the United Nations Comtrade database show.
     
  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Regardless respective GDP projections, there is little question that the economic war on the Russian people has negatively impacted the countries that imposed such sanctions.

    Governments are embattled as the public is roiled. UK is glum as it faces record energy price inflation. Europe as a whole braves for a bitter winter. On and on ...
     
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  7. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    This is the macro that should worry everybody, but instead Nationalist fervor has returned. All the peace, stability, freedom, and prosperity that's been gained through so much blood and suffering is threatened.

    I get it, a lot of people feel a lot of those things I listed passed them by (rightly or wrongly). Now demagogues and profit seeking institutions look to capitalize on this sentiment. Talk about cutting off ones nose to spite their face.

    I'm not sure how to educate and end the movement, but it's scary. Civilization does not always march towards advancement. It's taken large steps back several times through its history and this feels like a tipping point to me. It has since troops were amassed last winter. And I'm not a worrywart.
     
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  8. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Given the article about increases in imports of aluminum and nickle from the Russia the US certainly isn't going to cut off our nose to spite our own face. Instead we ask of others to do that which we are not willing to do ourselves. I also agree the winners are those that are invested in companies that provide implements of war and supporting items as necessary. These will be the winners regardless of how this turns out.
     
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    You make some fair points. How horrible would it be to wake up one morning in a dictatorship ? Waking up in a dictatorship might look like ...

    ... not being permitted to open your business, you can’t send your children to school, can’t attend your church, not allowed to comfort your dying, deprived of the opportunity of burying your dead, no social activities, no dining out, can’t go to the beach, forget sitting in a park as they’ve removed the benches, $2,000 of your hard-earned annual income goes to the military including $900 to weapons manufacturers, fear, distrust, enmity abound as the populace is gaslighted, by government ...

    Oh, wait, that’s not Russia or China ... that’s the US.
     
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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The U.S. has permanent bases in all of those countries because we are wanted in all of those countries. These countries know that having a U.S. base within their borders virtually guarantees that they will not be attacked . . . by anyone. The one friendly country that kicked us out (the Philippines) now regrets that decision, as they are getting routinely bullied by China in their own fishing waters. No country wants to have a Russian or Chinese base within their country, unless they are getting paid to let them be there (and they are desperately poor).

    Russia didn't need to invade countries after WWII, because they never left. They occupied virtually ALL of the eastern European countries, at least long enough to set up puppet communist governments that did their bidding. They did send tanks in once or twice if the locals chafed under the oppression. Ask the people of Poland what they think of your beloved Russia, and try not to be surprised when they spit on you. And don't forget about the USSR adventure in Afghanistan, where they invaded on the flimsiest of pretenses on their way to securing a warm-water port (yes, if they had been successful, Pakistan would have been next). I imagine you don't like to talk about that.

    China was too poor and incompetently managed to invade anyone until the late 1970's, and they were defeated soundly by the remnants of Vietnam's military. They take a longer view than the Russians, and they realized that they need a world-class military before they start thinking about invading other countries. So they focused on building their economy to have enough money to build their military. China has violated international law repeatedly, and more frequently since they started their military buildup. China has a long list of countries that they want to attack (or at least neutralize with a threat of military action). Do you think China LIKES sharing the fish in the water around the Philippines with the people of the Philippines? Do you think China LIKES sharing the fish in the waters off Ecuador with the people of Ecuador? And fishing rights are just one of many issues where China would like to exert their will over other countries.

    You would have to pretty gullible to think that countries like China and Russia would behave reasonably well if the U.S. were not there to enforce modern international standards. While the neocons have done some stupid things over the years (as have the liberal leaders in the U.S.), overall, the U.S. has tried to do the right thing for other countries and has made the world a safer place. There are only two or three countries large enough and economically successful enough to provide this service, and the only other 1-2 countries that could do it are communist and their leaders live in a world where winning is the only thing, and want nothing more than to take what others have. Your multi-polar arrangement is a pointless fantasy--there are almost no other countries besides the U.S., China and Russia that can step up and enforce anything against other countries. The European Union would not enforce anything until a NATO country was attacked. India is not modernized enough to compete with the other countries.

    You probably shouldn't allow your hatred of the "neocons" to take over your senses to the point that you hope that civilization collapses to smite them down. That's equivalent to cutting off your head to spite your nose. Most experts agree that people shouldn't do that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
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  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    What color is the sky in your world? Just asking.
     
  12. sas1988

    sas1988 All American

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    That was the world.
     
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The US has been at war for 93% of its existence. Since 1776, it has involved itself in approximately 400 military interventions, some 200 since 1950, over 100 since the year the Soviet Union fell ...

     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The sun is yellow and the sky is often blue. But sometimes it’s gray. Sometimes it’s dark.
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The ultimate whataboutery. As it has been pointed out, it wasn’t China’s fault that we became China.
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    what kind of business do you have in mind: prostitution, children for sale, . . . ?
    you'll probably get in more trouble for NOT sending your children to school.
    what exactly did you do in church that got you expelled?
    I'll assume that this is a Covid-related problem. Almost all countries have some severe rules when it comes to pandemics.
    You haven't been killing people, have you? Some states do not let the killers perform funeral services.
    Maybe you just need to look harder for the pro-Russian, multi-polar people in the U.S. They're out there if you look hard enough. Some may seem a little crazy, but I'm sure you can learn to look past that.
    Who is stopping you from eating at restaurants?
    Is there a beach you would like to go to? Maybe one of the posters here can pull some connections with the local beach czar and get you in. You can wear a disguise if you like.
    You do know that you can bring your own chair, right?
    Somebody's got to pay for the weapons, don't you think?
    Maybe if you toned down your rhetoric, people would not be so afraid of you.
    Well, we did elect our government. If anyone should gaslight us, it should probably be the people we elected.
    IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT, AND I FEEL FINE . . .



     
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  17. g8trjax

    g8trjax GC Hall of Fame

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    They're just upset we didn't go far enough...
     
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Refutations summarized ...

    “Squirrel!”
     
  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Good, I think we're making progress.
     
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  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, that’s democracy for you, giving the people what they want and giving it to them hard.