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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  2. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    I do think that’s an interesting discussion, but I don’t think it will get to the point of collapse, which is where the real danger would be. The problem at the end of the Cold War was the vacuum with their system collapsing. Putin will keep the institutions in line, and even if he is bounced, some other wannabe will fill in and keep the basic institutions running. That’s the source of their power.
    They are just going to be set back a decade or two.
     
  3. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Makes sense, but I would commend the extended discussion, which incorporated imperial culture and resistance at the periphery as flashpoints. But solid. The discussion was beyond Ukraine. In very extreme oversimplification, it talked about the decision just to rely on oil resources instead of trying to diversify the economy over the last 2-3 decades
     
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, he’s absolutely slaying it right now. It’s great to be a Russian these days.
     
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  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    He’s slaying hundreds of thousands and Biden and the neocons are entirely onboard with it. See above article.
     
  6. back2back2006

    back2back2006 GC Legend

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    This is a lie. Sooooo do you live in the USA? If you do why?
     
  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    He can stop slaying hundreds of thousands (the lion’s share of which appear to be Russian) anytime he wants to pull his starving, under-equipped, undertrained army back into his own borders. Until then, you can just keep replacing the catastrophic losses with prisoners and minorities until you run out of those, too.

    Someday, when the war is over and there are bluebirds over the White Hills of Dover again, I want to take a glass-bottom boat tour of the Black Sea so I can see for myself the once-vaunted Russian Southern Fleet.

    upload_2022-9-8_13-40-43.jpeg

    Slaying it, I tell you.
     
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  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    For at least two reasons: (1) most US states have moved on from pan-panic (2) safest place in the world from American bombs and missiles.
     
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  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The Ghost of Kyiv approves of this post!
     
  10. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    the more interesting question for me, and one not talked about all that much, are the geopolitical ramifications for China. They were aligning closely with Russia to try to set up a counterweight to the west, and with Russia in the state they are in, what do they do now?They will stay aligned with Russia, but their combined influence goes down substantially.
    I also think it’s one of the reasons they have freaked out so badly over Taiwan, they feel like the US is spiking the football on them. The west shows it can stand up to totalitarian aggression without firing a shot themselves, and then we chose that moment to go have a good time in Taipei. Was a pretty big slap in the face and message from China’s POV.
     
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Agree with all that. The fact that Russia went to DPRK for arms tells you that China is being very limited. We will know more (hopefully only rhetorically) in 5 weeks. Presuming it's only rhetoric and nonkinetic, I think what is said there will tell us a lot

    The 20th National Congress of the Chinese Communist Party (commonly referred to as Èrshí Dà; Chinese: 二十大) will be held in Beijing, opening on 16 October 2022.[1] 2,300 delegates will represent the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)'s estimated 90 million members. Preparations for the 20th National Congress began in 2021, and will end with a plenary session of the 19th Central Committee, a few days prior to the 20th National Congress.[2] In 2021, local and provincial party organizations began electing delegates to the congress as well as receiving and amending party documents. It will be followed by the 21st National Congress in 2027
     
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you suggesting that the sinking of Moskva was a hoax? No problem. Present a contemporary photo of it above the waterline. That should be easy to do by the end of the day.
     
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  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Russian technology is so superior it was immediately and stealthily converted to a submarine, using the fake "sinking" as a ruse, now patrolling stealthily off our coasts.

    You Amerikans are so easy to fool!
     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “It doesn’t matter if Ukraine is reduced to a rump state and our standing around the world is diminished. We’ll always have the Moskva.” — Joe Biden —
     
  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    So … not a hoax?

    I understand. That one is a little harder to minimize since Turkey had to rescue so many of your sailors. Man, that has to be embarrassing, though, right? Not only the first loss of a flagship since the Russo-Japanese War, but having to be rescued by your ancient enemy, the Turks.

    As I said, I look forward to seeing Moskva for myself someday. The Ukrainians have it recorded as a heritage site, so we have the lat-long for all time. I’ll post pictures when I have them.
     
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  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Since you bring up Japan, in the waning months of WWII Japan put poorly-trained pilots in older airplanes and sunk 36 US warships, damaged 346 more and killed or wounded 10,000 US sailors.

    Muhammad Ali, even in his prime, took some shots to the face.
     
  17. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    A feel good video - hope it depicts what it claims.


     
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  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you insane? What percentage of the global population would rather live in a dictatorship like Russia than in a democracy? Democracies are almost always more economically successful. The only success that Russia has had is because of its natural resources (oil & gas). You have at least some freedom of speech and thought in a democracy. Saying the wrong thing in a dictatorship could get you imprisoned or killed. See: Stalin, Joseph. Dictatorships have much higher levels of corruption, which is good if you are in on the corruption, but not so good if you are in the other 99.99% of the population. In a democracy, the people have the power to select their leaders and have some say in the direction that the country is going in. They also typically have some basic human rights. In a dictatorship, nothing is guaranteed--you get what the dictator allows you to have, for as long as he allows you to have it. If you want to change your leaders, it has to be done through violent overthrow.

    As far as hegemony goes, do you even know what the word means? Hegemony refers to taking advantage of other countries by use of force or the threat of force. The U.S. invaded Iraq and neglected to take a single drop of Iraqi oil. The U.S. is unusually bad at hegemony. We invaded Afghanistan and spent billions of dollars to try to improve the country, and then wound up abandoning it because the Taliban could not handle the improvements. What you are probably referring to as hegemony is most likely the enforcement of U.N. standards and international law. That is not hegemony, because we are not taking advantage of the countries involved. In fact, we often are preventing countries like China from taking advantage of other countries (like Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, etc.). It is an enormous burden that the U.S. has chosen to take on the role of international policeman, and it would not be necessary if countries like China and Russia would abide by international law and recognize simple concepts like borders of other countries. To a dictatorship, might makes right. Most of the world does not agree with that idea.

    If the moral authority of the U.S. in global affairs is replaced by countries like Russia and China, the world will be a much more violent place, almost overnight. Natural resources will be used up at an even faster rate, leading to a dystopian "Mad Max"-like future. In short, civilization will disappear.
     
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  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    pretty ballsy, hope these folks stay out of tall buildings

    Russian Officials Propose Overthrowing Putin, Charging Him With Treason (msn.com)

    A group of Russian officials has appealed to the country's State Duma to remove President Vladimir Putin from power on the charge of high treason, a document shared by one of the Russian deputies who co-signed the proposal reveals.

    In a tweet published on Wednesday by Nikita Yurefev, a municipal deputy for Smolninskoe in St. Petersburg, the official wrote that the Council of the Smolninskoye Municipal District "sent a proposal to the State Duma demanding to remove Putin from office based on the charges of high treason."

    The treason charge appears to be directly related to the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, which in Russia is still referred to as a "special military operation" by the Kremlin and its propaganda machine.

    "His decision to start the Special Military Operation led to 1) deaths of the Russian servicemen, 2) problems in the Russian economy, 3) the expansion of NATO (the border with NATO has doubled!," a translation of Yurefev's tweet read.
     
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