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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Cnn live

    "Zelensky: "I'm ready for negotiations" with Putin, but if they fail, it could mean "a third World War"

    From CNN's Chandelis Duster

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Sunday he is ready to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin, but warned that if any negotiation attempts fail, it could mean the fight between the two countries would lead to "a third World War."

    “I’m ready for negotiations with him. I was ready for the last two years. And I think that without negotiations, we cannot end this war,” Zelensky told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria in an exclusive interview Sunday morning.

    “If there’s just 1% chance for us to stop this war, I think that we need to take this chance. We need to do that. I can tell you about the result of this negotiations — in any case, we are losing people on a daily basis, innocent people on the ground," he said.

    He continued, “Russian forces have come to exterminate us, to kill us. And we can demonstrate that the dignity of our people and our army that we are able to deal a powerful blow, we are able to strike back. But, unfortunately, our dignity is not going to preserve the lives. So, I think we have to use any format, any chance in order to have a possibility of negotiating, possibility of talking to Putin. But if these attempts fail, that would mean that this is a third World War.”"
     
  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    There is a legit neo-nazi element that was welcomed into the Ukrainian army. Small but well trained. Instrumental i fighting Russians in Donbas so tolerated by Ukraine. This is what Putin is referring to as if they control the Ukranian army and gubmnt

    Azov Battalion

    Azov Battalion - Wikipedia
     
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  3. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    So there was an estimate of around 10% or so of that unit (900 or so total) that could be considered "neo Nazi". 90-100 people in a country of millions, none of which are in power, STILL nullifies the argument that the Ukranian government needed to be denazified. Likely Russia's issue with them is them fighting back against Russian occupation in Donbass & other places.

    Considering Putin's Hitler-esque behavior, does this mean NATO can go in & take over Russia to "denazify" Russia?

    Btw not arguing with you - just pointing out how ridiculously weak that argument is.
     
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  4. reboundgtr

    reboundgtr VIP Member

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    Jawja
  5. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    While Zelensky may consider it a third world war NATO and China certainly do not see it that way. I am sympathetic to Zelensky's pleas for intervention and negotiations. As for negotiations, Israel has has taken the lead concerning mediation. To this point it has been to no avail as neither side is willing to give an inch.

    As for a face to face meeting there is no place on the planet that will occur.
     
  6. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Russian admiral - fleet captain - killed. Seems like someone is trophy hunting and getting good intel on target locations

    Putin loses ANOTHER top commander: Black Sea Fleet captain, 51, is 'shot dead near Mariupol' | Daily Mail Online

    Ukraine claimed today that its forces had shot dead the deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in another significant blow to Vladimir Putin's forces.
    First rank captain Andrey Paliy, 51, is the only senior naval officer allegedly killed in the war in Ukraine, although Kyiv claims to have slain five army generals.
     
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  7. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Yep. And now, as suspected,

     
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  8. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    my son is working on hypersonic missile technology for a defense contractor.
     
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  9. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Not sure why you think he did not get his way. Billions of funding I have gone into it, without much to show for Marshside, except for adversaries arguably overreacting. As for real guns, PW Singer already wrote that triumphant note in Ghost Fleet. That novel also covers some of the thought processes behind the legitimate space military consideration, which are very different from the regular stick Star Wars, brilliant Pebbles, whenever you want to call it. That is much more having to do with taking out and defending satellites
     
  10. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Apparently the Russians are using Ukraine's unencrypted cell phone network to communicate making it relatively easy to locate and target their senior commanders including the generals.

    Trending news: New York Times: Russian generals in Ukraine use cell phones - The Moscow Times - Hindustan News Hub
     
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  11. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    A look at Russian supply-line challenges by a former US NCO who's responsibility this was while he served. Read the whole 16 tweet string.
     
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  12. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The war is now essentially a war of attrition. Putin's hope is that he can shell and bomb the Ukrainians into submission before the Russian people and perhaps more importantly the Russian elite decide that they have their fill of economic adversity combined with seeing young conscripts returning to the Motherland in coffins and body bags.
     
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  13. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    Russian military:
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Oh I absolutely believe there's a ton of indiscriminate shelling, just not intentional targeting of civilians. It's a big difference as the latter is a war crime. Again, I believe so because the the few facts we can be certain of support it.

    The first fact is that Russia simply doesn't have the intel or PGM capability to attack military positions in an urban setting without causing significant civilian casualties either due to inaccurate ordnance or inaccurate intel.

    The second fact is that attacking civilians simply doesn't work unless you're willing to conduct it on a genocidal scale, e.g. with nuclear weapons or like the Mongol horde of the past. Not the casual "genocide" being thrown around these days, but literal extermination of all living humans. For example, Nazi and Japanese atrocities against civilians didn't cause anyone to surrender, and neither did the firebombing of Berlin and Tokyo.

    It's more a matter of priorities. We've been preparing for war against insurgencies the last few decades, not so much against peer competitors. The Russians and the Chinese have also always been disproportionately advanced when it comes to missiles as they use the threat of nuclear missiles to compensate for their lack of tech in conventional forces.

    For military purposes, I generally agree with you here, but hypersonics have other potential uses. Like many things initially developed for the military, it can find great civilian applications (e.g. computers developed to break codes, internet developed for communications). China for example is working on hypersonic planes and space vehicles, so there's possible application for future travels. We certainly wouldn't want to be behind on the future of transportation.

    Personally, that's one of the greatest benefits of the great power competition with China. It gives us a focus, a drive, that we haven't had since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Last time we were in a competition like this we put humans on the moon, revolutionized travel and communications, and exponentially expanded human processing power with computers. Perhaps with the competition with China, we'll revolutionize travel (into space, maybe?) again due to the drive to develop hypersonic missiles, expand new sources of energy due to the drive for energy independence, and finally get butler robots due to the drive to develop better AI.

    All this nonsense with Russia to me is a distraction, just a case of the "missing white woman" syndrome played out in international politics. It's tragic, but it happens all the time, and it really doesn't matter to me any more because the victims are white.
     
  15. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator VIP Member

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    It’s the same with the US Army. Don’t know if it’s 10% but it’s enough to cause concern.
     
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  16. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    During Reagan's administration that is true the initiative was funded for development yet after President Reagan left office research and development plummeted. The organization has been frought with numerous name changes and mission objectives ranging from regional, national and global. Not neccessarily in that order.

    Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)
    Another common criticism of SDI was that it was simply not a feasible project. For example, the day after Reagan announced SDI, Senator Ted Kennedy dismissed his speech as “misleading Red-scare tactics and reckless Star Wars schemes,” indirectly coining SDI’s Hollywood nickname. A New York Times op-ed similarly noted, “It remains a pipe dream, a projection of fantasy into policy….There's no statesmanship in science fiction.”

    Without Reagan to support it, SDI’s funding plummeted in the early 1990s. Although the program was never officially canceled, it was renamed under President Bill Clinton as the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO).

    In 2001, President George W. Bush announced his administration’s plan to withdraw from the ABM Treaty within six months. “A number of [rogue] states are acquiring increasingly longer-range ballistic missiles as instruments of blackmail and coercion against the United States and its friends and allies,” read an official statement. “The United States must defend its homeland, its forces and its friends and allies against these threats.” The anti-ballistic missile program was once again renamed, this time as the National Defense Agency (NDA). NDA, which still exists today, has studied the possibilities of space-based anti-ballistic missile technology, as SDI once did, although without any significant results to date.
     
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  17. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Despite the dictation errors in my original post, my point was that it got tons of funding. To the point that our adversaries spend a lot of money believing they have to figure out ways to counter its effect. We could say that's a positive except it's also destabilizing. But either way, my understanding is that there's really no defense against an adversary that wants to drop some nuclear warheads with a ballistic missile and has enough of them. It can be positive if we could have kept the DPRK to limited numbers of missiles and warheads but that ship has sailed
     
  18. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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  19. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Ukraine to the Russian ground troops: Can you hear me now?
     
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  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Ukranian model plane enthusiasts morphed into a highly effective drone force. Starlink helps make it possible. Seems like these guys could focus on some missile launchers but maybe they are out of range

    An elite Ukrainian drone unit exploits the cover of night to destroy Russian tanks and trucks while their soldiers sleep, report says

    "If we use a drone with thermal vision at night, the drone must connect through Starlink to the artillery guy and create target acquisition," an Aerorozvidka leader told The Times.

    Aerorozvidka uses an advanced Nato-supported intelligence system, Delta, which pulls together information from various sources including satellites and drone reconnaissance to precisely identify targets.

    This helps the unit make the most efficient use of their limited supply of bombs, according to The Times.

    Aerorozvidka was created by model plane enthusiasts in 2014 and has since been integrated into the Ukrainian general staff following the success of its operations against Russian forces in Crimea, The Times said.

    In recent weeks, supporters from around Europe have been donating drone parts and other equipment such as 3D printers to help build and repair devices damaged by Russian rifles.
     
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