Wrong verify source of wealth (ill gotten gains regardless of government), file a formal charge then freeze assets.
We are talking about specific sanctioned individuals here. For them, literally every penny is rooted in ill gotten gains. The tricky part will be going after money they laundered through LLC’s and to family members. The “due diligence” will be tracing and verifying those bank transactions. If they can trace accounts, it should be easy. But these guys (like drug cartels) are pretty expert at hiding assets through areas where they know the banking laws and/or records are lax. So we know it isn’t necessarily “easy”. This is why it needs to be frozen now. To prevent them from moving things around (in the case of the mega yachts, from PHYSICALLY moving them, so quite literal).
This is the way I understand it. That was the narrative in the book Putin’s People. Also, in the beginning, many were former KGB/FSB colleagues. The author spent more than a decade living in and reporting on Russia - I think it was for Financial Times. Extensively sourced book.
Didn't I say that in a previous post we have the results of such policies. I certainly didn't say those polices have stopped although there are lawsuits on the books challenging seizures of assets justifications provided the claimant has enough money to pursue it in court. I agree it is a big issue that needs reform. Again prove they are ill gotten gains and file a formal lawsuit and freeze the assets. It's that simple and I think both you and I could agree on that. Like you I have no idea which banks do business with nefarious characters regardless of national origin. I'm sure no one is concerned with the patrons or investors of HSBC bank with exception of their own account(s). One more time where are the formal charges?
It only wouldn't matter if they all made it back, assuming there wasn't some way to tell with the tons of night vision images they would have.
Anyone care to predict when the conflict changes from a war with "fronts" or when Russia occupies the entire nation and it turns to Gorilla style fighting? I just don't see Ukraine as being militarily able to hold the front lines much longer.
Yes, I’m having a hard time understanding why you are going to bat for the tentacles of the lawless Russian government. We need some form of due process to get all the way to asset seizure. To take those assets permanently. I completely understand that. We absolutely do NOT to freeze assets in place or impose sanctions on Russian government officials and oligarchs. There is no 4th amendment protection for a foreign Russian oligarch located outside the U.S. All I’m saying re: the seizure is we need to be able to more effectively cut through the bullshit games that money launderers use w/ transfers and shell companies. The proposed task force needs to be empowered to do this, and a special court needs to be set up to hopefully move it more expeditiously (rather than getting bogged down for many years). In the meantime literally everything traced to these specific individuals needs to be frozen to prevent them from moving it (something they were surely already doing and are continuing to do).
Cnn live: "Zelensky says Russia is preparing to bomb Odessa From CNN’s Alex Hardie in London Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said Russia is preparing to bomb Odessa, a strategically important port city on Ukraine's Black Sea coast. “Russian people always used to come to Odessa and they only knew warmth and generosity and what’s now? Artillery, bombs against Odessa. This will be a war crime. This will be historic crime”, Zelensky said in a broadcast address on Facebook."
Once again not letting aid in or people out... From CNN live "ICRC says Mariupol evacuation attempts today have failed From CNN Staff The ICRC tweeted a statement on Sunday stating that evacuation attempts in Mariupol, Ukraine, have failed. The ICRC wrote: “People are living in terror in Mariupol, desperate for safety. Today’s attempt to start evacuating an estimated 200,000 people has failed. The failed attempts underscore the absence of a detailed and functioning agreement between parties to the conflict.”"
I thought this was an incredible quote from him, and unfortunately he seems to be right: (from article discussing an airport being bombed & destroyed) "We repeat everyday - close the skies over Ukraine. Close to all Russian rockets, all military aviation, for all these terrorists. Please create a humanitarian zone without rockets, without air bombs. "We are humans, and it’s your humanitarian duty to protect us, protect civilians, and you can do it. If you don’t do it, if you at least don’t give us airplanes so that we could defend ourselves, that the only conclusion remains - you also want us to be very slowly killed." At the very least get them those planes!
Let me be very clear this is about property rights regardless of the asset holder. It is being destroyed by governments in front of our very eyes and emotional versus logical thought has taken hold. Why? Bling your home was bought with ill gotten gains. I know this but cannot prove it and I'm going to seize your car, house and financial assets now. Due process will come later and good luck to you finding a way to support yourself.
And of course, a Putin cheerleader appears on Fox News to let us know that Russia is taking it easy on Ukraine and that Zelensky isn’t a hero.
Except to initiate the seizure the various governments had to show proof they were connected to Putin. They didn't seize/freeze every Russian's assets. Just the ones with a relationship/connection to Putin. So there's your reason right there. Up to them, and I doubt they're in the poor house, to do something about Putin & then use their high priced lawyers/accountants to help them decipher what's what.
And I'm sure some apologist will come out & say "well he didn't say that..." or "he didn't mean it that way". Putin hasn't nuked Ukraine or the world yet, so there's that
I don't think there's a person here that wouldn't like for that to happen. Unfortunately NATO leaders simply don't have the luxury of doing what they would like in this scenario....a short term win/satisfaction might be counter to the long term goals of de-escalation and a withdrawl of Russian forces. If we were dealing with a rational man or one that did not have the worlds largest nuclear threat at his fingertips then it would be different...but the simple fact is that we have to factor in those chilling realities into all decisions. One could rightfully argue where the threshold might lie for drawing the red line, but I think most agree that the US shooting down a Russian asset likely sends us on a path no one wants to go down.
Being connected to Putin has nothing to do with property rights. Committing crimes for ill gotten gains does regardless of ones personal connections. I can mention any number of personal connections with Putin in our own political atmosphere. Shall we seize their assets as well?
I am a U.S. citizen, and should have 4th amendment protections in such matters. The issue with asset seizures is they seem to blatantly violate the rights of CITIZENS. I am NOT on the other hand a specifically named Russian oligarch. We are talking named individuals here. They are owed due process under a rule of law, but are not afforded constitutional protections from sanctions
For the U.S. citizen you would have to prove a crime, which isn’t beyond the realm of possibility. If a citizen is helping to evade sanctions or to “unfreeze” assets in an illegal way, then the answer to your question is yes they should also be stripped of these assets. The only “legal” interaction an American should have with one of those oligarchs right now is perhaps to represent them as an attorney in a U.S. court (and even then it’s not clear how that attorney would be paid). Any American “doing business” with them in practically any other way is likely committing a crime.
