Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    12,913
    1,727
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    He believes it is right because he believes Ukraine is ultimately part of Russia. Whether he believes they are Nazis, I doubt it, he rationalizes lies and propoganda as a means to a “just” end.
     
  2. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

    3,051
    939
    1,858
    Nov 24, 2021
    Buffalo NY
    Exactly. At this point in his mind it's already war, so might as well. He knows he'd only win with nukes, though, against the US, & only because the world ends.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    12,913
    1,727
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    Depends on how you define “worked”. Rarely do they cause regime change. But if they are severe enough they cause the economy to crater such that they are powerless to do much else, and it serves as an example to other authoritarians that if you try to expand your territory it isn’t going to end well for you.

    These sanctions are pretty unique in their severity, so if there was a chance at regime change perhaps this is it.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    15,869
    2,052
    1,718
    Dec 9, 2010
    I think he cares about staying in power. For years, he has done this by protecting the interests of certain oligarchs that straddle the line between the legal and illegal economies (utilizing government resources either directly or indirectly to their benefit). These folks are the real power brokers in Russia, not Putin himself. A lot of them are not thrilled about losing their businesses, access to the places that they spend time outside of Russia, Yachts, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

    7,743
    648
    1,193
    Jan 20, 2008
    Tallahassee, FL
    Seems so. No international transactions either way.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  6. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

    3,051
    939
    1,858
    Nov 24, 2021
    Buffalo NY
    That's why going after the oligarchs is so vital & unique here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    15,281
    13,204
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    The end justifies the means, that also sounds familiar.
     
  8. danmann65

    danmann65 All American

    485
    126
    1,898
    May 22, 2015
    I want to donate to help somehow. Anyone know of a good charity that will actually help the people?
     
  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,431
    12,043
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    US agreeing to backfill Poland air force responsibilities to allow Poland to seng MiGs to Ukraine

    Subscribe to read | Financial Times

    President Volodymyr Zelensky has urged Washington to provide Poland and other eastern European allies with American aircraft that would then enable those countries to send Russian-made military planes to Ukraine.
    In a call with almost 300 US lawmakers, Zelensky made an emotional plea for help and said Ukraine badly needed more aircraft, particularly after Nato decided against creating a no-fly zone because it would risk a broader conflict with Russia, according to people familiar with the call.
    Zelensky asked the US to provide Poland and three other Nato countries with US aircraft that would allow them up to then send Russian-made aircraft to Ukraine, the people said. Ukrainian pilots need Russian-made aircraft since those are the systems they have been trained to fly.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    14,111
    5,238
    3,208
    Nov 25, 2017
    Putin made the Oligarchs. They owe him. Not the other way around
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  11. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    15,281
    13,204
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    I would also hope that training is underway for Ukrainian pilots to learn how to fly American, French, and British jets.
     
  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,431
    12,043
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    I believe they are all Migs being loaned. Training pilots to combat level would seem to be a lengthy undertaking
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,431
    12,043
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    While I agree with this, he has been, and continues to be, paid very well. It may be that the current ask will prove to be too high
     
  14. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

    8,800
    1,066
    3,218
    Apr 3, 2007
    Many of the oligarchs made their money starting in the 90s.
     
  15. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

    8,800
    1,066
    3,218
    Apr 3, 2007
    Zelensky is fabulous. Never would have thought he’d much more than a passing consideration when news came out of him standing up to Trump.

     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    15,869
    2,052
    1,718
    Dec 9, 2010
    I'd disagree somewhat on that. They made themselves in the aftermath of the Soviet breakup. A lot of them were either upper middle management in the Soviet state-owned industries or ran some semi-legal business in their industries and used their position to purchase their assets for pennies on the dollar from the state prior to Putin. Look at somebody like Roman Abramovich as a good representative example. He was involved in the semi-legal trading of energy under the Soviets. He and a partner (who ran the Pro-Yeltsin TV station at the time) put together $150 million to purchase assets that almost instantly "became" worth $2.7 billion. He did so through a bribery scheme. A year later, he is suddenly living in the Kremlin, as he had become "close" to Yeltsin and then he recommended to him that Putin be his replacement 3 years later.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

    7,743
    648
    1,193
    Jan 20, 2008
    Tallahassee, FL
    Pretty savage troll move by Z.
     
  18. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

    3,051
    939
    1,858
    Nov 24, 2021
    Buffalo NY

    About time!!
     
  19. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    14,111
    5,238
    3,208
    Nov 25, 2017
    Putin is his own business person. The Oligarchs are his junior partners. He doesn’t work for them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    14,111
    5,238
    3,208
    Nov 25, 2017
    They stole the resources of the country. Putin was responsible when he was Yeltsins number 2 and after he replaced Yeltsin. Read Red Notice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1