Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. jjgator55

    jjgator55 VIP Member

    6,802
    1,825
    2,043
    Apr 3, 2007
    You can always count on foreign media to show you what American media wont. Ha ha!



     
  2. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    16,325
    13,373
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    Weakening NATO will be next.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,804
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Paging all Russophobes:
    From @kanthan on X

    Short history of Europe trying to conquer Russia:
    ~800 years ago: Sweden attacked Russia
    ~400 years ago, it was Poland-Lithuania
    ~300 years ago, Sweden again, with UK
    ~200 years ago, France (Napoleon) tried it
    ~175 years ago, France + UK (Crimean War)
    ~100 years ago, Russian revolution & WW1
    ~80 years ago, Hitler backed by globalists
    Now, NATO waging proxy war thru Ukraine

    And somehow Russia is the biggest threat to Europe
     
  4. jjgator55

    jjgator55 VIP Member

    6,802
    1,825
    2,043
    Apr 3, 2007
    [​IMG]
     
  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    17,959
    1,288
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    We can only hope.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,479
    2,216
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I am just as upset about the situation as you are. As far as I can tell, we have not paused our planning, intelligence, and targeting support, and hopefully we won’t. There also seem to be indications of a rapprochement to get the material aid unpaused, so I will hope for that, too. Zelensky may have to eat some undeserved shit, but it would be worth it.

    The President is hell bent on forcing both parties to negotiate an end to the war. I don’t necessarily disagree with that for reasons I’ve stated. What I disagree with categorically is focusing that pressure largely on Ukraine instead of on the disgusting party that is exclusively at fault for this war.

    As far as what happens next, let’s say for whatever reason the President does not turn the material aid back on and, worse, turns off some of the other support. In that case, Ukraine needs to assert its intent to keep fighting and rack up some victories in the field. They were smashing Russians under unfavorable circumstances before we were delivering our current level of support, and they need to demonstrate they can keep doing it. And Europe needs to step up as much as it can for as long as it can. At some point, this Administration will see what is obvious to most unbiased observers: Russia is the more vulnerable (as well as deserving) party to pressure. If the goal is to force a relatively just peace as soon as practicable, then the clear line of effort needs to be amplifying pain on Russia and stating in no uncertain terms that the longer this goes on, the less favorable the terms will be for Russia. Our current strategy is as at least as dumb as Biden’s with respect to Iran. You don’t get points for being nice to countries like Iran and Russia. The more you give them, the more they want. And the weaker and stupider they perceive us to be.
     
  7. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,804
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Standing with the people of Ukraine is the opposite of supporting the hugely unpopular Zelensky
     
  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,479
    2,216
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    It’s a possibility. You start running into some Congressional resistance when it comes to not meeting treaty obligations, though. Republican majority resistance to this has been restrained so far (far more restrained than I would like), but they will start peeling off when it comes to threatening our treaty alliances. And this isn’t necessarily out of some need to do the right thing. It comes down to China as well as our own fears, honor, and interests. It’s easy to say “meh” about Ukraine for people who can’t see beyond the next terrain feature. It’s not as easy to say “meh” when asked the question, “If China invades Taiwan, do you want to fight China alone?” The UK and France don’t have to help us, and we need their fleets and aircraft. Japan and Australia, not NATO members, but they will be watching how we treat our allies in Europe, and they don’t have to help us either.

    And anyone who scoffs and says, “What do we need these so-called allies for?” Well, I’ve seen the wargame results with them and without them. Have you?
     
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 1
  9. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

    2,804
    235
    113
    Feb 4, 2024
    Truths the Russia haters can't deal with
     
  10. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    15,174
    5,471
    3,208
    Nov 25, 2017
    Your assessment of Russia is correct. This administration won’t pressure them. This president doesn’t see the world the way you do
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    16,325
    13,373
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    Some republicans will bark if he fails to keep our treaty commitments, but do you seriously think they would ever do more than that? Don't make me laugh.
     
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,479
    2,216
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Some will indeed. It’s a razor-thin majority, though.
     
  13. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,479
    2,216
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Not yet, they won’t. Wish I didn’t, but I agree. For some people the scales just fall off. For others, they have to be blasted off. I hope, same as you, that happens sooner rather than later.
     
  14. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    11,422
    1,526
    678
    Sep 11, 2022
    They always will be due to their enormous advantage in natural resources and nukes. It is practically impossible to take them out. Hell, all the historical references you listed happened before the nukes…