War in Ukraine

The difference, of course, is that the weapons being "produced" by SDI were not going to be used on Russian troops the next month. And, of course, we are limited on what kinds of technology we are willing to share with Ukraine.

The other difference is that Reagan was working with a rational, non-homicidal Mikhail Gorbachev versus a barbaric Vladimir Putin.

 

There are very few "pro-war zealots" in either party. Supporting Ukraine's right to defend itself against a marauding army of barbarians does not make one pro-war or a zealot. It makes one a supporter of international law, and someone willing to oppose imperialism.

Trump does not give a crap about any particular subset of his "base". As long as large numbers of people worship him, he'll think and say whatever he wants (and force his followers to believe it). He appears to have chosen Vance because he's far more likely than Pence to do what he's told and to repeat lies (like Haitians eating dogs), and Trump will not have to learn too many new letters to spell Vance's name (just replace "Pe" with "Va"). He likes one-syllable names--not too much thinking involved.

Isolationists are often blinded by their own sanctimoniousness. Just like they were in WWII--"don't offend Germany or Japan, because they might get angry; peace is the most important thing! The rest of you are bloodthirsty pirates who want to waste money!" Stopping aid to Ukraine is only a green light for further Russian aggression in exchange for temporary peace. It may not be next week or next month, but another Russian invasion (on a flimsy context) will be forthcoming, just like what happened after Germany invaded Poland. It may take years for Russia to rebuild its military for the next invasion, but it's coming. "Peace in our time" in 1938/39 became "Peace for a short time, followed by a MUCH larger war." All because of penny-pinching propaganda-pumping "peace" peddlers. Bailing on Ukraine will also persuade China to invade Taiwan. The billions we have been spending on Ukraine are NOTHING compared to the trillions we will spend preparing for the next conflict(s). Denying that just makes you ignorant of history.

The people advocating support for Ukraine are NOT "pro-war". They are pro-freedom. They are pro-"rule of law". They are anti-imperialism. They are actually anti-war, knowing that supporting the innocent country in this smaller war will either prevent a larger war or a continuous stream of Russian invasions of neighbors to take over small tracts of land until they rule over all the countries of eastern Europe again. They may decide to take over all of Europe if Europe stops caring about the invasions--who knows? If we bail on Ukraine, China most likely invades Taiwan in 3-4 years. If we oppose that invasion militarily (as we should), that would be the perfect time for Russia to invade the rest of Ukraine under some flimsy pretext. What will you say then? Remember, Neville Chamberlain was so disgraced and humiliated by his failed peace agreement that he died almost six months to the day after Germany invaded France.

The difference between the supporters of Ukraine in this conflict and the appeasers of Russia is that the supporters of Ukraine know history and can see past their own noses into the future.

 

The people supporting Ukraine are Empire appeasers. They advocate for imperial coups, radicalizing populations against their neighbors, suspending elections, banning open source media, jailing or deporting dissenters, press-ganging civilians to send them to slaughter and aggrandizing puppets. In other words, they manifestly do not support freedom.

 

Armchair generals have been keen to impose arbitrary timelines on Russia. But at long last, Ukraine appears on the verge of defeat. So, what now ?

The incoming U.S. president Donald Trump has promised to end the war in Ukraine in a short time. However, the only way to achieve that is to concede to all the demands the Russian side has made. The western pro-war factions and the deep-state will do their best to prevent that. They still demand a maximum pressure campaign to bring Russia to its knees.

But every measure they plan to introduced has already been tried. A further increase of sanctions on Russia will only further weaken U.S. allies. There are no more 'wonder-weapons' in U.S. arsenals that Russia can not immediately counter. Russia is outproducing western weapon manufacturers in all categories.

The Ukrainian army is on the verge of falling apart. The economy of Ukraine is faltering. Its people have lost the will to fight.

As the U.S., and NATO, are likely unwilling to concede their defeat the war will have to be decided on the battle field. In 2025 the Russian forces will continue to destroy the Ukrainian army. They will proceed to take whatever is needed to guarantee Russia's strategic security.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/01/ukraine-sitrep.html#more

 

People on this thread: “Russia a gas station masquerading as a country with a ragtag army bogged down against lowly and weapons starved Ukraine.”

Same people: “If Russia is not stopped now it’ll roll through Europe country after country because Hitler!”

 

chemgator has been completely dominated by duggers_dad on this thread.

 

Except that's not what you're doing or what's happening. You'll never find or see a post from me that indicates Ukraine doesn't have a right to defend itself. Straw man argument. What we're seeing now isn't Ukraine "defending itself". It's a proxy war between NATO and Russia, where we ship Ukraine arms and allow their soldiers to do the fighting of our proxy war for us. Actual Ukrainians were content to sign a piece deal in spring of 2022 and NATO told them no. At that stage, it was no longer Ukraine defending itself.

If you're truly all about Ukrainian sovereignty then you should be disgusted with the fact that they wanted peace and we didn't allow them to have it. And it should disgust you that we are treating Ukrainian soldiers as disposable bodies to prosecute our proxy war with Russia, if you're truly interested in Ukrainian sovereignty. But you're not interested in Ukrainian sovereignty. You're interested in furthering American imperialism with a proxy war under the guise of "Ukraine's right to defend itself."

 

BS
The story behind 2022's secret Ukraine-Russia peace negotiations

 

Such ignorance. The War in Ukraine is BOTH a proxy war between the West and Russia AND it's Ukraine defending itself against Russia. The two are not mutually exclusive. Duh! And Ukraine is not "fighting for us". They are fighting for their freedom and their land, pure and simple. The west has no animosity towards Russia separate from their use of their military to invade other countries or prop up dictators, both acts of theft on a large scale. The U.S. supports democracy (real democracy, not Russian democracy where the most powerful candidate gets to pick his opponents and assassinate the ones who are too successful) because it leads to fewer wars.

And, no, if Ukraine was interested in signing a peace deal with Russia at any time, there is nothing we could do to stop them. If you believe that the U.S. could stop Ukraine from signing that peace deal, you are probably too far gone to participate in intelligent debate on the subject. Dig a hole in the dirt and bury your head with a lifetime subscription to nutjobs like Caitlyn Johnstone and Moon of Alabama. Do you really think that the U.S. threatened Ukraine with nuclear annihilation or something if they signed a peace deal with Russia? Of course that never happened.

It should disgust you that you don't even understand the meaning of imperialism. Imperialism involves using primarily military means to take over another country and its resources. Exactly what does the U.S. get if Ukraine defeats Russia? We might get paid back a fraction of what we spent on aid to them. That's about it. We will not get any farmland or mineral resources. We don't get a province in Ukraine. We get an ally on the border of Russia, and a possible trading partner. (So does every other free country in the world, BTW.)

 

Russian gas flow to Europe via Ukraine has now been stopped. Good for Ukraine for standing up and stopping this when the deal expired and good on the EU for being ready for this, for the most part, and absorbing all the additional costs for energy without the russian gas.

this should push LNG projects in the pipeline to get done sooner and existing facilities to max production fi they have room

The intentional sabotage of the electric grid supporting the countries around Ukraine that sell electricity to Ukraine makes it more difficult for these countries to produce excess electricity with the gas shut down.

Ukraine stops transit of Russian gas to EU in end of era

Russian gas has stopped flowing to EU states via Ukraine after a five-year deal expired, marking the end of a decades-long arrangement.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that his country would not allow Russia to "earn additional billions on our blood". Poland's government meanwhile said the cut-off was "another victory" against Moscow.

The European Commission said the EU had prepared for the change and most states could cope. Moldova, which is not in the EU, is already suffering shortages.

Russia can still send gas to Hungary, Turkey and Serbia through the TurkStream pipeline across the Black Sea.

 

they are going to have a robust defense industry to export field tested products when this war is done

Zelenskyy said 30% of the weapons and gear used by Ukraine's military in 2024 was domestically made

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that 30% of the military equipment Ukraine used in 2024 was domestically made, with Western nations' support not enough to push back against Russia's invasion.
......................
Ukraine's military industry has soared since Russia launched its full-scale invasion in February 2022.

Ukraine is making more and more of its own weaponry, like naval drones, howitzers, and glide bombs. It also manufactures its own missiles and successfully tested its first homemade ballistic missile in August.

An increasing number of Western manufacturers are also setting up operations in Ukraine. These include AeroVironment, an American defense contractor headquartered in Virginia, German arms maker Rheinmetall, and BAE, a major British defense firm.

 

Which Ukrainians are fighting for their freedoms ? Certainly not the men (of all ages ) who fear going out for bread and milk lest they be grabbed off the street and fed into the meat grinder.

 

Obviously, if western companies are setting up operations in Ukraine, they are fairly confident that Ukraine will win the war outright, or the majority of Ukraine will be free at the conclusion of a settlement.

 

They’re probably waiting until America’s decisive defeat in its proxy war vs Russia, which ended up ceding territories to Russia that Russia said it would have to take to ensure its concerns that, had they been honored by the West, would have remained in Ukrainian hands with certain stipulations.

 

There is no way that Russia would allow western weapons manufacturers to move in to Ukraine after a settlement is reached. Are you daft? Russia got its ass handed to it by small numbers of western weapons and a ton of Ukrainian-made drones. The last thing they want to see is Ukraine re-building its military with large numbers of western weapons.

Of course, these companies are confident that Ukraine will win, or at least will be able to continue fighting long enough to get these factories started up and making enough weapons for Ukraine to finish off Russia.

 

From the much chattered about HIMARS to the venerable Abrams tanks, Western Wunderwaffen have proven to be duds. Russia has essentially inoculated itself from the best the Wesy has to offer. Late breaking: NYT grudgingly admits that ATACMS have been a dud.

 

All western weapons have proven to be more accurate and capable than Russian weapons, as a general rule. As a result, Russia has tried to overwhelm Ukraine with massive amounts of artillery fire, which wears out the barrels that much faster. The HIMARS rocket launcher has been especially devastating to Russian forces, and very difficult for Russia to take out, since they are usually long gone by the time Russia figures out where they launched from. Very few have been taken out by Russia. ATACMS have also proven their worth as a long-range weapon, forcing Russia to remove their aircraft to more remote airfields out of range of the missiles. Russia has had to rely on oversized glide bombs to have any significant impact on the war, especially after Ukraine started shooting down their helicopters and aircraft. The Abrams tanks, while not indestructible, have proven to be highly survivable for their crews when they've been hit, just like the Bradleys have been. That allows Ukraine to have more experienced crews than Russia. At one point, Russia was recruiting ambulance drivers and putting them in tanks, because so many tankers had been killed.

Western weapons are generally not wunderwaffen at age 40+; they are just significantly better than their Russian counterparts (and far better than anything coming out of North Korea). Ask yourself why Russia is scared to use their latest tank in battle against the 40-year-old weapons. Ask why the Russians are scared to fly their Su-57 Felon aircraft over Ukraine against 40-year-old anti-aircraft systems.

 

The men of Ukraine are not being fed into the meat grinder. They are operating the meat grinder. Russians are the ones being fed into the meat grinder. Only Russia has been sending in "meat waves" of troops into heavily fortified positions, not Ukraine. Obviously, if Ukraine did anything so foolish, they would have run out of troops by now. But they haven't.

Russia has had far more casualties in this war than Ukraine has had. The only time that Russia was on the winning end of the casualties stick was when Russia was defending against Ukraine counter-attack at the urging of the U.S. and other western countries (after Russia had filled the area with mines, dragons teeth, and other defenses). That was a very brief time period in the war--Ukraine learned their lesson, and changed their tactics.

The rest of the war, Russia's military has gone through a buzz saw. The only success they had in capturing a fortified city was to send Russian prisoners ahead to get shot so the Wagner Group troops could see where Ukraine was firing from and return fire. When they ran out of prisoners, they started using soldiers. Russia has easily had 2-3 times as many casualties as Ukraine because of this. And they almost certainly have more fatalities than Ukraine, because they typically let people die instead of risking their own life to remove them from the battlefield, and they don't put a priority on medical care for lower-ranked troops. And in the beginning of the war, Russia had a significant problem with self-inflicted wounds of soldiers looking to get out of the war in one piece. Training and military leadership are also poor on the Russian side, so greater casualty rates are inevitable.

Watching what's happening in Kursk, it is like watching a professional sports team (Ukraine) take on a high school team (Russia). That's how bad things are going for Russia.

 

Somebody is awfully defensive here about a situation that isn’t going the way they want it to.