War in Ukraine

I think you might be missing his point. Read your post out loud to yourself.

 

Why don’t you tell me what you think his point is?

 

2014: CNN didn't lie for once and showed how Ukraine was oppressing Rusian-speakers in the Donbas

 

I will say I am not optimistic. The last time the Europeans were left in charge of something major was the Balkan conflict where England wanted to prove they still could be relevant. And the US had to come in to stop the genocides. Germany is basically that country now and they are absolute clowns

 

If the Russians don't play ball, President Trump will make it very costly for the Chinese and Indians to buy Russian oil. The irony to all the prognosticating going on here (i.e. Trump hate) is that it is more likely to be China who stops aid to Russia before the U.S. has to say no to Ukraine.

 

Thanks. He kind of supplied the exclamation mark.

 

That would be great. Hope it happens. Though, I would bet on the Indians before the Chinese.

 

I don’t remember it that way. The UK, Blair specifically, was pushing the U.S. to get involved from the beginning. There was no point where the other NATO countries were conducting military operations without us, and Clinton finally went along (without so much as telling Congress to go [stuff] itself) because it was a convenient distraction from the ongoing Lewinsky affair.

Now what you were describing kind of happened a bit later with Libya but in reverse order from the way you described it. Obama (again without Congress) directed the U.S. to lead military operations but then stepped back and had the allies lead before the operation hit 90 days. It is true that their command and control was ineffective without U.S. systems and personnel tying everything together. But circling back to your point, I’m not sure how much of that matters when it comes to delivering material aid, which is far easier to coordinate than kinetic military operations. The European aid is going to continue at least until Russia starts winning decisively in the field, and they are not winning decisively in the field. They are taking an unsustainable beating.

 

If you’re talking about me, let me clarify a few points. First, I questioned Biden’s mental acuity as far back as when he was Vice President, and I’ve been especially critical of how he let people around him (the First Lady, the Chief of Staff, National Security Advisor) hide his condition and make Presidential decisions for him. Frankly, except for a bit of empathy we all tend to have for old people losing their grip, I’m not the least bit sad to see him go out the way he has. Second, I don’t think Congress will “force” President Trump to continue the aid. I think that would be counterproductive for them even to try to make it happen by compelling him publicly. I was very clear I think they will negotiate his continued support in return for their support on matters he considers more important than Ukraine, such as with respect to the SW Border. There is a lot President Trump can do immediately to alleviate conditions at the Border by executive authority alone, but many of the long-term solutions will require legislation. There is no value in immediately alienating the moderate Republicans and Democrats in Congress, who would both support a long-term immigration solution but are also horrified by the prospect of just letting Russia carve up Ukraine.

 

I remember being nearly laughed off the board for calling this a proxy war …

 

actually it is the other way around

 

I watched an amazing documentary from the BBC on the Balkan war. Was extremely comprehensive. Reality was crazy. The fact the war ended in Dayton, Ohio and those foreign generals went to college football games in the region is unreal footage ha.

The Europeans asked the US to stay out of it at first and then came begging for the US to intervene. John Major was the PM and Lord Carrington was in charge of negotiations. The UK also sold a ton of munitions to Slovenia on the eve of the conflict which really lit the match.

 

No CIC, Trump or otherwise, needs to borrow political capital to make a move on intervention in a foreign war. Frankly, I think it would be tragic if such a decision were to be tied to anything else like immigration or what have you. That makes it watered-down in execution, which is not what you want on something like Ukraine-Russia. Nor at our southern border. But alas, the CIC doesn't need to ask permission for this. Congress will either support his agenda or they won't. I don't know if you've noticed, but the mood around Trump's election this time around is a lot like the beginning of the Godfather where even some of his adversaries are bringing gifts to him at Mar-a-lago, just to get a few minutes at the table with him. So if he wants to end the military aid to Ukraine, they are not going to get in his way. They'll want to pick other battles to have with the incoming mandate.

As previously mentioned, don't be surprised if the solution to this war ends up being something that is almost barely talked about. The idea of weakening Russia's economy wasn't completely wrong, but it lacked in execution. See Iran.

 

I think it would be wise to do not just for the purposes of ending this war, but also to bust up the Russia-China-NK-Iran alliance moving forward. We have forced that marriage and have done virtually nothing to offset it. But are we surprised? This is the same team who allowed millions of unvetted immigrants into the country with a rubber stamp. Their goal was never to preserve the America you are fighting for and have fought for.

 

Please tell me what Trump did to stop illegal immigration in his 4 years in charge as well. The only reason the borders are open is because we have labor shortages for manual labor roles

 

Ouch. The information is out there from multiple sources. The difference is how one processes that information. (See election deniers.)

 

Huh, whuh ? I thought the Ukrainians knew the Russians were staging genocide against them …

 

Yes, the information that the Russians attempted to influence the election is out there.

As is the information that Trump did not collude or conspire with the Russians.

Process those facts however you want.

 

Add: we don’t ever try to influence other country’s elections.