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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Fully understand your concern about nuclear weapons. Literally no one on the planet wants it to come to that. Where we no doubt agree is we want all of those things to stay in their holsters, and I'll bet we also agree that there are limits to what we will accept just because a country threatens us with them. We may disagree here and there where that line is, of course. If it comes to conventional war with Russia for reasons that are beyond our ability to deter, then Russia has a lot of good reasons not to go nuclear (which, I would point out, they have not against Ukraine, despite Ukraine not falling under anyone's nuclear umbrella). First, they have grave doubts about whether their weapons work or not or would hit what they are aimed at; their biggest value is the deterrence they provide by staying in the holster. Second, they have no doubt whatsoever that our weapons work and would hit whatever they are aimed at. Third, their Chinese masters won't let Russia use their nuclear weapons, and Russia needs Chinese support much more than they need whatever advantage (and I really don't see one) they think they will get from cooking off a nuke. Fourth, whatever little support Russia gets from the Global South would also be gone. In my opinion, Russia's threats about nukes, etc. are all aimed at people who don't understand those four things. And I certainly understand the thinking behind "Well, we shouldn't take that chance," but then I go back to "How far do you let a country like Russia do whatever it wants just because they have nukes?"
     
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  2. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    When I win the November election by virtue of a massive write-in campaign, @uftaipan is my Secretary of Defense National Security Advisor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2024
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I would prefer National Security Advisor if you don't mind. First, no Senate confirmation, so all of my skeletons can stay buried. Second, can't be summoned to testify before Congress for much the same reasons. Third, I'll look like a genius compared to the idiot I'll be succeeding, which gives my legacy a real advantage.
     
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  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    As long as Ukraine does not threaten to invade or surround Moscow, there is no reason for Russia to become irrational (or, to put it bluntly, suicidal). There is no partial commitment to nuclear war. You either go in with both feet and go out in a blaze of glory (or, more likely, a flash), or you don't do it at all, because nukes will be returned, in all likelihood. Putin is not crazy. He's misguided and ignorant about military matters, but not crazy.

    He initially believed that he could take Ukraine easily before the west could do anything about it, and now he believes he can succeed through intimidation and threats. He has not done anything yet, and there is no reason to believe he will do anything. Remember, we have ridden Russia (when they were called the USSR) into ruin and collapse 34 years ago, and nothing happened then.

    Putin's strength is intelligence, not in the sense that he is intelligent, but he knows how to control people through fear. Don't let him control you.
     
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  5. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Done, although I was going to change the name back to Secretary of War just in your honor.
     
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  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s no use. He has us in thrall and is going to throw another election and have us all speaking Russian.
     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine's special new protective cages on the Abrams tanks makes them nearly bulletproof against the Russian drone attacks. Might be time to send a few more tanks over there--we still have 9,969 of them in storage, so we should at least send another 31, if not 310.

    US tanks weren’t ready for Russian attacks. Ukraine has a fix

     
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine shoots down another Russian fighter jet--this one a $50 million Su-30SM--flying over the Black Sea. They used a MANPADS system to take it down.

    Ukraine says it shot down a $50M Su-30 Russian fighter jet, sending it crashing into the Black Sea

     
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  9. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    NCR
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  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Well aware who is behind not only this but also every other dumb national security decision with respect to Afghanistan, Iran, and Russia since January 2021. History is going to be a harsh judge once everything becomes public.
     
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  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    are you sure? what would djt do? like you, not a fan of Sullivan at all but can you imagine djt in office?
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Ukraine gets green light for storm shadow missile use (msn.com)


    The United Kingdom has decided to allow Ukraine to use Storm Shadow cruise missiles to attack targets in Russia. The Guardian, citing sources in the British government, obtained this information.

    This decision was made during a meeting between U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken
    and British Foreign Secretary David Lammy in Kyiv on September 11.
     
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  13. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    If pootie doesn't like it, he can make it stop by getting the f out of Ukraine.
     
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  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That isn’t really my argument, and since I don’t think there’s much of a chance Trump is going to win I really don’t care to speculate on what he might do or not do. I’m more interested at this point about what Harris is going to do, or Biden, once he’s no longer shackled by this election. And my hope is of course that the day after the election is the day they fire-promote Sullivan to head of the World Bank or some such nonsense.
     
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  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Murican pining for WWIII along with a desire to FAFO.
     
  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Agreeing to let UK allow storm shadows is a good first step
     
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  17. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    He’d make one phone call …
     
  18. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Screams the Russian who already has started the wars…
     
  19. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    The problem is really with the government, in this case the Biden administration, taking his bait and then basically complying by trying to "manage" the war instead of helping Ukraine win the war. I really think we should have pressed him on that and force him to say (to the world) what he means by these cryptic threats. As I would put it, the protocols re. nukes haven't changed, so you know what happens if you (Russia) make that choice. That said, are you telling the world that you'll choose global thermonuclear war if you can't get your way in Ukraine."
    The man sees our better nature as a weakness and consistently looks to exploit that. On the subject of nukes, IMO we just played right into his hands by limiting what we gave them, limiting their targets, etc. IDK, but this just really annoys me and I don't think someone like Reagan would have just let him get away with these veiled threats of nukes.
     
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  20. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    Not Russian. Just a POS traitor!!!
     
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