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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

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    “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

    Sun Tzu
     
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  2. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Yep, “undiplomatic activities” is polite speak for espionage.
     
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  3. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    And that is now confirmed. From the spokeswoman for the US Mission to the United Nations:

     
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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I hope so. And I hope that Ukraine will not accept any peace that leaves Russia with any part of Ukraine, and by that I mean I also mean Donbas and Crimea. The world needs to have those terms, too, as the price of Russia returning to normal relations. Putin needs to be gelded on the world stage with no kind of victory to point to whatsoever.
     
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  5. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    This meme has been posted on Twitter a number of times:

     
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  6. swampspring

    swampspring GC Legend

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    I don't know if there are any stated rules requiring only those with Ukrainian id's/passports from being able to travel into a neighboring EU country. And from what I have read, it isn't a Ukrainians first policy. It's intended to be an open door policy.

    Polish officials even confirmed that only visas or general identification, even those that are expired, are the rule, not whether the individual is Ukrainian. On top of that, I think the only stated ban was for men ages 18-60 but otherwise, all civilians were free to leave.

    So it would be racist if only those of color are being prevented and/or being pushed to the back of the line.
     
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  7. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Expulsion. What happened to trades?
     
  8. AlfaGator

    AlfaGator VIP Member

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    Putin tried light force, next is blunt force. Putin will keep ramping up the pressure until he controls Ukraine and then he might negotiate seriously.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  9. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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  10. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    This isn’t arresting spies where you would trade them, this is saying “your diplomats are actually spies and thus are no longer welcome in our country, take them back home.”
     
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  11. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Again, you aren’t hearing me either.
    Putin invaded Crimea under the pretense of protecting Russians despite the fact that things were not violent, he invaded Chechnya after allegedly blowing up an apartment building himself in Moscow to justify their risk as terrorists, he semi invaded eastern Ukraine under the guise of protecting Russians despite the fact most wanted to stay with Ukraine, and this time around he sent a list of demands to the west in December that basically said “take NATO back to 1997 or I invade”, which he knew wasn’t even a remotely reasonable negotiating starting point.
    So even though he might very well feel some pressure from NATO, every western intelligence service believes these claims are nothing more than pretense for what he wants to do, which is always expand and restore his territory. These complaints by him always end up that way.
    And yes, every single time we say “I understand his thinking”, we rationalize and on some level excuse that behavior, no matter how many qualifiers we put out in front of it. I don’t think you are purposely blaming the west, but that is the net effect.
    Now if you think every western intelligence service is wrong and a few contrarians on the internet are right, that’s your right. Maybe history proves you right, who knows, we will see. But for now, history has told us who this man is and what his MO is, either we choose to listen or we don’t. And every new territorial acquisition has its justification. It will be another justification if he goes after Finland in five years. Maybe it’s even NATO again, despite the fact that in its entire history it’s never physically threatened Russia.
    Side note, I legitimately respect contrarian articles like the reason article, I just don’t agree with it for the reasons above.

    and this time I’m really super super done. Disagree if you like and have the last word.
     
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  12. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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  13. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    This is bollocks and revisionist history. Take this:

    Instead, Clinton, with the Republican Party's support, oversaw an expansion of NATO. Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland all joined. Years later, Putin would cite this enlargement of NATO as one of the West's "broken promises" that justified his Ukraine policy.


    After decades fighting Soviet expansionism, and when these countries begged us for inclusion, and we were able to convert them to functioning peaceful democracies, and all the while Russia was already meddling in their affairs, we were supposed to walk away because we may offend a future Russian tyrant that otherwise would have peacefully coexisted as a model world citizen?
     
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  14. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    to be fair, he was in the slow right lane and the off ramp was on the left.
     
  15. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Wow.

     
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  16. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    rookies...just hop the turnstile
     
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  17. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    dont forget the negative covid test required to cross into a country...oh wait, thats the US
     
  18. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes it would. I got that information from one of your links as well as some other videos of the incidents that mentioned the Ukranian first policy.

    Just now in the car, on CNN they were right there with the trains. Women & children only right now with priority to women WITH children. They don't have enough room. The Ukranian thing was mentioned again, so MAYBE it's a misunderstanding there at the train depot as to who is allowed out.

    The Nigerian lady they were talking to was boarding a train at the time the interview ended.
     
  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That is American way. In Russia, turnstile hops you.[​IMG]
     
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  20. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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