War in Ukraine

So you are saying, as a conservative, that it is better to cede territory than defend national sovereignty? There was a phrase for that decades ago. “ Better Red than dead”.

 

Conservative reaction is political. They want to abandon Ukraine so they can say Joe lost to Russia. There is zero concern for anything else. 100% political.

 

Our border is more than politics.

19 ppl perpetrated 9/11.

10 MILLION unknown unvetted illegals have swarmed in through our southern border under China Joe, 10"s of thousands from enemy states.

Its a matter of national security.

Hence border vs Ukraine is a question of whose national security is more important to us? Ukraine's, or ourn?

....and sorry, but your Russian boogeyman is a laughable joke compared to the Soviet Empire yall want to resuscitate to justify your headscratchingly passionate cheerleading and feigned urgency.... as our own border gets invaded and penetrated with absolute impunity.

 

I'm saying we face far greater and more compelling threats than Russia/Ukraine, which imo, is a Chinese orchestrated distraction.

(...and imo, he resolution is there for the taking, for a non-puppet leader).

 

Some absolutely loony theories from a couple posters on this thread.

 

Loony and dumb. Like I guess we can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Fixing immigration does not require the us to literally stop everything else. Why are they tying together Ukraine and the southern border you’re basically just admitting that if a Republican head says it on tv it’ll come out your mouth just like someone eating then pooping.

 

ISW admits that Ukraine is sorely outgunned and still has wet dreams about Russia trying to conquer Europe …

Ukraine looks to be losing the 'battle for ammunition,' and its forces are being massively outshot by the Russians

 

Xi made Putin invade Ukraine?

 

Since some are prequalifing comments with labels…… as fiscal conservative and social libertarian, my unnuanced opinion or question about Ukraine has always been as follows. The euros have the most to lose if indeed the fear is Putins desire to invade other European countries. If so then why have Russian LNG imports to European countries increased ? While we send hardware and money to Ukraine to help
Prevent Putin, since we are the largest exporter of LNG in the world why aren’t the euros buying all their LNG from us ?

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ia-rise-despite-cuts-pipeline-gas-2023-08-30/

The Euros should be way out in front leading this, but they aren’t. This says nothing of the waste of money going into black holes

lastly, another thing this war has proven is that absent ICBMs the Russian military is wholly incapable of continued operations greater than 100 miles from the motherland. Definitely not worth a single us serviceman’s life.

If the euros aren’t too worried to be inconvenienced on where they buy LNG then why should we be so worried?

 

Note that the Euros no longer use the Russian lng pipelines to import their supplies. The pipelines previously supplied 10 times the gas that the tankers import. Tankers showed a small increase from prior years.

 

2 years into this conflict. Why are euros buying ANY LNG or anything else from a country they fear will invade another European county? We or even Australians could supply all their Needs. If they are seemingly not that worried, then why should we be spending hundreds of millions and depleting our stockpiles to protect them from an invasion from the same country they are engaged in continued regular commerce? Seems a bit counterintuitive.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-was-top-lng-exporter-2023-hit-record-levels-2024-01-02/#:~:text=HOUSTON, Jan 2 (Reuters),exporter of LNG in 2023.

HOUSTON, Jan 2, 2024(Reuters) - U.S. liquefied natural gas exports hit monthly and annual record highs in December, tanker tracking data showed, with analysts saying it positioned the United States to leapfrog Qatar and Australia to become the largest exporter of LNG in 2023

 

Seems a huge reach to hang SOME small fractional gas purchases on continued support for a country that was invaded and suffers to exist.

 

If anything abandonment of Ukraine by the MAGA Republicans could very well send the message to Xi that America would be just as dependable with its support for Taiwan as it was with its support of Ukraine.

 

I suspect that China already, by dint of Ukraine, knows our limitations.

 

You've been speaking about this in terms of 'preemptive' war, ie America must do something about Russia now, before they become too much a threat. Sounds a lot like the buildup to the 2nd Iraq war. In terms of American history, preemptive war has in almost every case, led to disaster. That is because the local belligerents obviously have a much greater vested interest in the outcome of events than politicians in Washington DC.

Yet, you continue to beat this preemptive war drum as if it's going to work this time and it will not. Ukrainian neutrality is a red line for Russia and there's nothing that can or will be done to change that. The most likely scenario now is that Trump wins and leans hard on both Z and Putin to hug it out. This war does not serve American interests.

If Putin invades Poland, the Baltics, etc, we can have that conversation then. But we're not going to get this involved over "what ifs" that make no sense to begin with. You're allowing yourself to be WMD'd, because of the (D) next to his name. Notwithstanding, you can't continually mock the Russian army and its ineffectiveness and then claim they're going to attempt to conquer Eastern Europe.

World powers will always be looking for a way to expand their influence. It's no different for America. The more influence we have, the easier it is to control things around the world. Congrats. You baited Putin into a war that makes him look very bad, but you won't have anything to show for it when it's all said and done. Russian will is not going to break. Especially when that map isn't budging.

Like Afghanistan and Iraq, time to cut our losses. It's a lost cause. Has been from the start. Idiots are in charge of conspiring all of this, from the start.

 

“But, but we’ll get this war right!”

 

Right. So maybe the poster's thinking was that China made Russia invade to test what we'd do rather than simply distracting us? Whatever his imagined logic - it's an impressive conspiracy. One of the largest and most unique I've heard lately.

 

“The government lied to us about Vietnam!”

“The government lied to us about Iraq!”

“The government lied to us about Afghanistan!”

“But they’re telling the truth about this one!”

 

We should simply ignore the dismal failed history of appeasement ( "If Putin invades Poland, the Baltics, etc, we can have that conversation then.") because Putin is different? We baited Putin into massing troops and notwithstanding the world's warnings, barbarically invaded Ukraine? Someone is diving into the deepest end of the propaganda pool again.

 

People: “LOL, Russia’s military a paper tiger. It’s been nearly two years and it’s struggled to control 20% of Ukraine.”

Same people: “If Putin isn’t turned back he’ll take over the whole of Europe starting with Poland!”