Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,647
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,647
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    HIMARS are still being used.

    Against neighborhoods …

     
  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Ukraine claimed nearly 50 tanks, 100 armored vehicles, and 900 soldiers taken out in one day. Russia is getting desperate to make progress in Avdiivka.

    Ukraine says it took out almost 50 Russian tanks in one day as Russia made failed attempt to capture eastern city

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Foolish drivel. We have covered this before. The U.S. did not "force" Ukraine into doing anything. The U.S. may have "enabled" Ukraine to continue fighting, but the U.S. has no ability to force Ukraine to do anything. Did the U.S. threaten to invade Ukraine unless they kept fighting? Did Biden threaten to nuke Kiev? Of course not. Don't be dense.

    From your foolish (propaganda) article, written by a Neville Chamberlain-level of idiot:
    Was Ukraine's best bargaining position at the negotiation table the point at which Russian tanks were rolling towards Kiev in long lines? Of course not. Was it even the point that Ukraine pushed back Russian troops into the current area of occupation? No, not really. Putin has been nothing if not determined to win the entire country through military means. Negotiating a peace at this point is merely delaying the inevitable and giving Putin a chance to rebuild his stocks of weapons and ammunition before attacking again. He attacked the first time on a flimsy pretense of Nazis being in charge of Ukraine. Do you think he won't make up an equally absurd excuse to invade again once he has rebuilt his military? Putin is a barbarian, and a barbarian only understands violence and conquest. Putin is also an old fool, which means that he is unwilling to face the reality and magnitude of his defeat in Ukraine.

    Finally, the west is slowly giving Ukraine better and more modern weapons to fight with. No one of these weapons will defeat Russia by itself, but collectively, they certainly have the potential to do so at the hands of Ukraine's highly capable military. Ukraine now has ATACM missiles, and is not too far away from getting longer range ATACMs. Ukraine is only a matter of months away from having F-16's from several countries, which will give them the ability to strike deep in Russian territory, and destroy weapons factories and military airfields. This might be Putin's best chance to negotiate for a surrender of Ukrainian territory before the rest of his army (and weapons factories) gets destroyed, along with what's left of the Russian economy. The U.S. has been slow-rolling better and better technology into Ukraine, giving Putin every chance in the world to come to his senses and give up on his quest for regional domination with minimal damage to the Russian people and Putin's precious weapons factories. Will Putin the intelligence man be smart enough to take the hint?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Russia's main 5th Generation fighter jet, the Su-57 Felon, has been declared missing in action. Rather, it's Russia's first attempt at a 5th Gen fighter. The west believes that Putin is afraid to commit these planes to the Ukraine War for fear of losing them to Patriot missile systems, even though it is supposed to be a stealth aircraft. Long story short: it's not ready for prime time.

    Where's the Su-57? The war in Ukraine is what fifth-generation fighter jets were made for, but Russia's Felon has largely been missing in action

     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    ^ The known problems with the Su-57 Felon, from the article, include non-stealthy engines and body panels that do not fit tightly together enough to make the plane stealthy. It also uses an older missile with fins that cannot be stored inside the plane, so they must be stored on the wings, which increases the radar signature.

    Like the T-14 Armata tank, Russia is afraid to use the Su-57 in battle for fear that it will ruin its market appeal in the future when it gets shot down.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  7. CharlestonGator

    CharlestonGator Premium Member

    4,591
    413
    343
    Apr 3, 2007
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    An excellent article from a Czech citizen about Russia's imperialistic approach to foreign affairs, addressed to "Putin's Western Fan Club". a.k.a. DD. The Czech's only enjoyed 22 years of independence in the 464 years from 1526 to 1990, because they were owned by the Germans, Austrians or Russians. The difference between the Germans and the Russians is that the Germans realized that what they did was wrong, and national leaders since WWII have all apologized profusely for occupying the Czech homeland, but the Russian leaders have not, because they do not see what is wrong with conquering and subjugating another country.

    "Putin's Western fan club" wants to force Eastern Europe into a Russian bearhug

     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    I sometimes wonder if Ethyl and Julius Rosenberg (and others in the weapons program) had any inkling how stupid and foolish they were in passing information about the nuclear bomb to the Soviets to help promote a "multi-polar world". I can't imagine that they had any idea of how dangerous the Soviets were to world peace.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,813
    11,890
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    another massive military heavy lift jet exploded in flames on the runway. A similar plane linked to Wagner exploded on the runway in Mali last month. Lack of proper maintenance is starting to show. I suspect the one in Russia was loaded heavy with weapons headed for the front.

    Russian military plane explodes in massive fireball while carrying mystery cargo (msn.com)

    ...........................
    But the wrecked plane is believed to be RF-86900 – used previously to supply Putin’s war effort via Belarus. Details of its cargo have not been disclosed ‘for wartime political reasons’, according to a comment from a source. He also said the plane may have belonged to Vladimir Putin’s elite Pskov airborne troops. They are reported to have lost five Il-76s in strikes by Ukraine.
    ............................
    In September, another one of the Russian-made planes was filmed as it careered off a runway in Africa and exploded into a fireball amid suspicions the jet was linked to the Wagner Group.

    The jet burst into flames in Mali- where Wagner’s troops are stationed – just weeks after the private mercenary group’s leader Yevgeny Prigozhin was killed after his plane exploded on a flight near Moscow.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

    13,774
    22,540
    3,348
    Sep 27, 2007
    Bug Tussle NC
    Love the BOOM. Hate the music.
     
  12. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    24,419
    2,513
    1,868
    Apr 3, 2007
    Very resourceful. Ukraine is utilizing modified RC cars to lay mines for Russian tanks.

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

    6,571
    2,472
    2,998
    Jan 15, 2008
    It’s a really interesting topic. I don’t believe they gave the secrets because of a belief in Russia. I think they did it because if the fear that no single Country should have such an overwhelming military weapon-edge over the rest of the World, because of the fear of how abused such power could be in the hands of a “bad-apple” leader.
     
  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,647
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Cited as being foolish by the poster who reported that Russian troops were surviving on zoo animals and had lost more than twice as many soldiers as had been inserted into theatre at the time. Also: Neville Chamberlain - the trope that will not die.
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,647
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    The seemingly never-ending wonder weapons parade is amusing. Latest: ATACMS.

    Bluntly, if the hope is ATACMS turning the war, Russia has MASSIVELY more comparable missiles with longer range.
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    A lot of Americans in the 1950's were sold on the benefits of Russian communism (like Lee Harvey), based on the propaganda that the Soviets put out. The official word from Russian media was that the Soviets had solved hunger, poverty, housing, and all manner of other social problems, and the country was an idyllic place to live. The proof: they were one of the winners in WWII and had an advanced space program, just like we had (therefore, everything else about their society must also be advanced/successful). Back then, people just assumed that media in other countries was as honest as it was in the U.S. It was no different than all the Americans who fawned over Hitler and the Nazis in the 1930's (like Joe Kennedy), based on German press releases and Hitler photo ops. They really didn't understand the truth about who they were dealing with.

    Neither the 1930's Germans nor the 1950's Soviets fully understood the U.S. either, as they viewed us with the assumption that our media was lying as much as theirs was. It wasn't until Boris Yeltsin made a surprise visit to a Houston grocery store in 1989 and saw that the average person in the U.S. was able to buy better food than the Russian leaders could buy that the Russians realized how far off that assumption was. The experience shook Yeltsin to his core, and convinced him that the Soviet Union was a failure. I have to believe that the Germans, like most of the Japanese leadership, greatly underestimated U.S. manufacturing capability for weapons, ships, tanks, planes, etc.

    There is a lot of ignorance between different countries and cultures because of these biases and assumptions. Teddy Roosevelt accidentally put Japan on a path to regional domination in the early 1900's when he suggested that Japan invading Korea would be a good idea. He did that based on the description of Japan of one Japanese person who went to college in the U.S., who described the samurai culture of Japan to T.R. in such a way that T.R. decided that Japan would be a good overlord for Asia (and counter-balance for China), much like the U.S. was for central America, the English was for India, and European countries were for Africa.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Yeah, but can the Russians hit the broad side of a barn if two mosquitoes and a dragonfly are defending it?


    At least there is general acknowledgement that the U.S. weapons work.
     
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,647
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Ask the Ukrainians if they think Russian weapons don’t work.
     
  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,298
    1,843
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    New Russian casualty numbers from the Brits: Russia has had 150-190,000 killed plus permanently disabled, and 240-290,000 wounded but possibly able to return to the battlefield. If the 120,000 killed is accurate, then they have had 30-70,000 permanently disabled. Moscow is sending as many of its wounded as possible back into battle, so they can be more successful at dying a heroic death. I am speculating that this is not helping morale on the front. These numbers do not include the Wagner forces who were fighting in Ukraine.

    Russia has likely suffered up to 480,000 soldiers killed or wounded in the war against Ukraine, says UK Ministry of Defence

     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,647
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Probably why Ukraine has lost the war …

     
    • Funny Funny x 1