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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Putin is suspected of wanting a "forever war". He thinks the west will grow weary of supporting freedom.

    Opinion: Why Putin wants a ‘forever war’ | CNN

     
  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia's collective I.Q. has been lowered so much by the War in Ukraine and the exodus from conscription that the FSB accidentally published the names and addresses of its spies. There was a list (434 pages) of people who needed to make sure they had emergency power if the power in the city went out, and it was published in the Moscow city hall website. So, in addition to all of the other expenses associated with losing the War in Ukraine, Putin now has to re-locate all of its spies and safe houses. Being brilliant, he will probably have them just trade houses with each other to save money . . .

    So much for Putin being an intelligence genius.

    Russia mistakenly doxed its own spies and secret bases by uploading their addresses on a public city hall website: investigative outlet

    You can't make this stuff up.
     
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  3. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    While I don’t disagree completely that more manufacturing should be done here domestically, if we were to move everything being made in China to US made, you think inflation is bad now. Many electronic goods would triple in price, among other goods. It’s not feasible. And how often do you have a Covid-19 pandemic? Once a century?

    The long and short is making ourselves adversaries of Russia have pushed China into a defensive posture and thus forming their own alliance with Russia. As I said before, drill baby drill takes care of your Russia problem. Then you can focus on more comfortable trading terms with the Chinese. We are now dealing from a position of weakness due to our green energy double down. You don’t want to push that Russian-Chinese partnership too close. It may already be there as we speak.
     
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  4. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    That's hysterical! Tragic for the spies, but so laughably incompetent, you can't help but to laugh.

    Now, tell me again why were supposed to fear these guys worse than chinese fentanyl, all kinds of terrorists, drugs, cartel thugs, MS13 gangbangers, abductions and massive sex trafficking...all pouring in through our southern border...

    ...and global level intellectual property misappropriation, trade imbalance, and direct attack on the dollar by the chicoms...

    ...and our own suicidal determination to spend ourselves into Chinese subservience...

    TBL: your Russian buggy man is basically a clown....and the folks who have you freakn out about this boogy clown, are distracting you from their own deep corruption--much of which, was processed through Ukraine (which I suspect, may likely represrnt the real value Putin was seeking to capture in invading Ukraine).
     
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  5. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Covid exposed the national security issue. It can happen again. If we have war, we are cut off from the supply. If there is a catastrophic natural disaster, cut-off from the supply.

    My point is that the US has to stop being reliant on other countries for basic supplies. We have the natural resources to be independent and self-reliant. We just aren’t because it is inconvenient. That needs to stop.
     
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  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  8. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I love this SOOOO much. Seized Iranian munitions going to Ukraine. Mind you, I have some sympathy for the Houthis against the Saudis. It's not all perfectly black and white. But still

     
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  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We are concerned about Russia for the same reason the French and Belgians were concerned about Germany after Hitler invaded Poland. Germany had a lot of modern weapons, and Hitler was willing to pull the trigger. It is best to put a stop to this kind of madman before things get too far. I was surprised to learn from a book I was reading that the majority of "soldiers" shooting at Americans on D-Day were not German; they were mostly Poles, Ukrainians, and Russians captured during Hitler's push eastward. (Germans were mostly reserved for counter-attack.) Most of these eastern Europeans shot at the Americans because the Germans would kill them if they did not. No one was scared of the German military before they invaded Poland.

    Letting Russia have Ukraine would lead them to capturing all countries in their area that are not protected by NATO. At some point the U.S. would have to be involved, and it would become a very dangerous situation with two nuclear powers in a hot war. Putin may be a clown (and Hitler was too, to a certain extent), but he is a dangerous one. A lot of people died because of these two people.

    I don't "fear" the Russians any more than the other things you listed. But I recognize that they are a dangerous threat, and they need to be stopped. I understand that the cheapest time to stop Russia is now, when no U.S. soldiers need to be directly involved. I also realize that the small amount of money we spend on helping Ukraine maintain their freedom is trivial compared to the $4-5 trillion we would save in defense spending the next dozen years or so. And $4-5 trillion could probably go a long way toward solving these other problems. Or maybe you would like to pay higher taxes to solve these other problems while we spend money like crazy on the military?
     
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  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    LOL, on people plotting how to divvy up Russia after our great proxy is thoroughly crushed.
     
  12. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    There are some things that are o.k. to rely on imports. Clothing, for example. The U.S. isn't going to lose a war or have people starve or have the economy collapse because we run out of new clothes.
     
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  13. chemgator

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    Russians begin to panic as Tokmak is evacuated in advance of being overrun by Ukraine.

    Russians in Tokmak began to panic: families and entire educational institutions are being evacuated

     
  14. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, I tried pointing out once or twice to @uftaipan that our production capacity is severely curtailed nowadays in the U.S. So again, I’m not in total disagreement with you, but a real war changes everything. Honestly, if a WW3 started, I think you’d see this nation get real conservative, real quick. I mean, half of us are already there, but this woke nonsense would be a forgotten footnote in history if we went into a 3rd world war.

    So I expect we could adjust and ramp up capacity in production quite drastically if the need arises. My main point was that Russia is already doing this now. They are running war factories 24/7 and that is why they can fire a shit ton of munitions daily and come back with more every day. So they have a head start.

    We have more oil underneath us than any other country. That’s where you need to ramp up capacity and production. If we become the world’s gas station, we can fight a world war with one hand tied behind our back.

    Your push for green energy is the real national security issue. Not a once a century viral pandemic.
     
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We hopefully will never have to fight another world war again. And it's not likely since the advent of nuclear weapons. You really can't force a nuclear power into that kind of corner (through an existential war) without expecting a nuclear response. We are careful to discourage Ukraine from thinking about attacking Moscow indiscriminately, or destroying the Kremlin.

    Becoming the world's gas station is not necessary for the U.S. to exert global influence. And it's a poor use of natural resources.

    The U.S. can ramp up production, but it takes time. I believe that all available munitions factories are working at full speed ahead, but if we want more production, we may need more factories. The main holdup appears to be what republicans are willing to sign off on for Ukraine aid. Too many of them are walking and talking in lockstep with Russian propaganda, and doing what their master Putin is telling them to do (through propaganda). I'm not sure what woke nonsense has to do with any of it.
     
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  16. ElimiGator

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    Jax
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia is getting very creative in finding ways to dispose of SAM systems. Russia loses yet another air defense system, this one in Donetsk Oblast. This one was not destroyed by the Ukrainians. It was "freight trained" after it was driven off a bridge. It sounds a bit like a Roadrunner cartoon.

    Train hits Russian air defence system near Horlivka: three soldiers killed

     
  18. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  19. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    I’ve always looked at our funding Ukraine as much as a signal to China that there are limits and the costs to territorial conquest will be high. Ironically over the past decade all the criticism is that we were weak in our signaling - not doing much about Crimea, saying there was a red line with Assad then negotiating chemical weapons agreement, and more recently the disastrous exit from Afghanistan. I’m 100% confident that if we had just shrugged when Russia invaded Ukraine the same people criticizing our involvement would be wailing about our weakness.
     
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  20. 92gator

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    Europeans are not big on defense spending, when they have to foot the bill.

    They were banking on the US doing all the paying stuff and providing all the party favors, and just having to make public statements about justice and what's right, from behind momma's skirt.
     
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