UPDATE: Ahmaud Arbery's 3 murderers all found guilty. Sentenced to LIFE in prison.

Which is probably why the owner didn't bother. It's a waste of his time, because the police aren't going to do anything about it. McMichael probably even told him this. I don't know about where you live, but up here, even in higher end neighborhoods, burglars almost never get apprehended. It's a waste of time to file a report, other than your insurance claim. The most the police will do is perhaps patrol a few more times a day down that street for a week or two. Most business owners simply don't have the time to waste on unproductive activity.

You also continue to frame this as though I'm saying the McMichaels had just cause under the law to pursue Arbery. I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that just because it's a misdemeanor and not a felony, doesn't mean Arbery didn't place himself into a bad situation. And I hope for the sake of my liberal friends here that if they have children, they will teach them that it doesn't have to be a felony to put themselves into a precarious situation. And that's all I've been saying all along. If the McMichaels are found guilty, so be it. They too put themselves into a bad situation they did not need to be in and could very well spend a long time behind bars for it. But we already knew that. I have zero remorse for them.

 

Not sure if it's been posted here, but qualified immunity is increasingly becoming an issue as a ramification of a SCOTUS decision

For cops who kill, special Supreme Court protection

The distinction between legally in the right, morally in the right, and what actions are situationally prudent bears repeating.

 

This is correct. I know in my neighborhood we'll go through periods of time (usually when school is out and the weather is nice) where people keep searching through parked cars at night. People will complain about it to each other but most don't call the police unless something valuable is stolen.

 

Great summary AZ. One question- was Arbery going for a run, or not?
Runners were encouraged to run 2.23 miles Friday in honor of Arbery, and post to FB. Which I did.

And now a contratrian FB friend has contacted me saying that he wasn't going for a run after all.

I should say that whether he was jogging or not doesn't change anything for me.
I would do the same thing because this deeply disturbs me. (The part I bolded from your quote.)

 

Arbery's family said he liked to run, and the McMichaels said they had seen Arbery running in the neighborhood before. Suggests that Arbery did enjoy jogging.

Also, had the owner of the house tod the McMichaels about the people coming in, I would imagine the house owner would have said nothing was ever stolen from the site. The looki-loos may have been a nuisance, but not really dangerous, and not costing the home owner anything as all they did was look.

Arbery wasn't some hardened criminal who'd spent years in jail on serious charges. He'd made some mistakes in his past, but that didn't have to define him his whole life, which was ahead ofv him. But the McMichaels only saw a black guy who was looking in a house under construction, who then left jogging down the road, and assumed the worst. So they hunted down and killed him.

 

Yeah, see, this is what irks me. You automatically assume the absolute worst about the McMichaels. But you give all these possible outs for Arbery, that don't really change anything. And anybody who has watched the surveillance video inside the home and thinks Arbery was just admiring the construction on the inside of the house is being incredibly naive.

If you want to say the McMichaels are murderers, fine. But all these excuses and spin narratives for Arbery are dumb. Did the McMichaels screw up? Probably so, but don't tell me Arbery didn't place himself into a compromising situation. That is a joke.

 

No body cameras. I'd make them mandatory for any officer that wants to carry a firearm.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Agree.

Nothing better than video and audio (if also available)
It protects both parties.

 

Yes, they have laser vision that allows them to know beforehand that their target isn't packing.

 

The fact you call the other people their "targets" says it all.

 

I suspect that if Zimmerman and the McMichaels actually thought that their targets were packing they would have called the police rather than take the law into their own hands.

 

The clearly established element is a disaster. It needs to be broadened or removed entirely. The idea that officers don't understand something is illegal just because their particular method of violating rights or that particular factual situation is novel is a silly notion.

 

The McMichael's actions ended up with someone dead who didn't deserve to die. Why should I give them any benefit of the doubt? While possible the owner of the home under construction talked to the McMichaels, the McMichaels never said any such conversation took place. So it's unlikely it ever happened.

So you have two guys, father and son, who see someone take a look in a construction site and then run off and they figure he must be a criminal committing a felony? Add in the father and son are white, and the person jogging is black and how can you not see it as the father and son racially profiling the black man?

To make matters worse, the father and son arm themselves, get in a truck, and hunt down the black guy. And as a result, the black guy is dead.

Yes, I assume the worst about the McMichaels because their actions tell a very loud story of racism and assuming the worst about Arbery, who at the time was simply jogging in the neighborhood and at worst, committed misdemenor trespassing. Arbery deserved to be treated better. The McMichaels initially got off and were going to get away with their misdeed if it weren't for the video that will ultimately end in justice for Arbery.

 

100% agree. I get the idea that police are in stressful jobs and have to make some really tough life and death split second decisions. That said, they sign up for that job and sign up to put themselves in that position. Your average citizen not engaging in any sort of nefarious or criminal behavior does not. Until we start holding them to a higher standard of care and require them to seek alternative courses of actions, we will continue to implicitly endorse actions that result in preventable deaths.

 

Yep. Assess the reasonableness of their actions through the eyes of a reasonable officer in those circumstances. We don't need any stupid "clearly established" test. It only serves to protect bad actors who were "first."

 

Just some things to think about. Personally I hope they charge them with manslaughter because I dont think they will get convicted of murder.

 

A more likely scenario would be a charge of murder followed by a plea agreement in which they're allowed to plead to manslaughter.

 

big difference between the 2 cases. Zimmerman was not trying to stop or arrest anybody. He was following and was assaulted and defended himself. Imo, these 2 cases are not comparable for that reason.