Trump wins Patriot of the Year.

John Adams vastly underrated. If Jefferson were listened to at that time, US would have been drug into a huge mess with France. He did that even though it hurt his popularity. In retrospect, that time period was an extremely dangerous time for the US's early years and he guided through his 4 years with really no long term issues. He left the presidency setting the country up with a better defense capability which was very important for what was coming.

Adams signed the Alien and Sedition act but didn't push for those. And he didn't allow the more extreme actions to take place under the Alien act either. These were rightly undone by Jefferson.

Adams was one of the few people that were President of this nation that tried to do things based on what he thought was right. And unlike Carter, one of the others that fall into that category, he was successful at keeping the nation on good footing.

 

Compare Reagan with Clinton both of whom served two full terms. Maybe even more relevant is the debt to GDP ratio. After peaking in 1946 at the end of World War II it had been declining under every administration both Democrat and Republican until 1980, after Reagan took office in 1981 it shot up.

 

Clinton administration should be remembered long term as one of the worst administrations though. I really was impressed by his balanced budget and foreign policy (Kosovo). However, his administration is directly responsible for laying the ground work for the 2008 financial crisis which some argue has ended our capitalist economy in many ways.

 

Good choice. He could run circles around anyone playing for the Patriots these days.

 

Monica agrees

 

While he played a role it was the deregulation of financial markets under Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act drafted by three Republican members of Congress that laid the ground work for the financial crisis. Clinton signed it but it was the Republican philosophy of deregulation that laid the groundwork and we're going to see much more of the same once Trump takes office for the second time.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...the_2008-2009_American_Capital_Markets_Crisis

 

I’m not going to argue with that I am not a history buff - it sounds right. But you said JQA was a better president that GHWB. My understanding was JQA was an ineffectual president although post presidency he was notable for his anti slavery stands. GHWB in many way was kind of how you describe John Adams. Some foreign policy buffs say he has been the best foreign policy president in the last 50-60 years, and I tend to agree.

 

Clinton's main responsibility is his cabinet ignoring Brooksley Born (ignoring is not even the right word for what they did actually). No single act more directly tied to the crisis than refusing to regulate derivatives under the CFTC.

What is wild is all those responsible for this decision had 0 negative outcomes for their careers.

 

I really don't disagree on the GHWB foreign policy. But domestically was just so underwhelming. Didn't do too much wrong though.

JQA I don't disagree was ineffectual. But he had great leadership with anti-slavery stances and how to treat Native Americans in a time of really horrific events. His competition (Jackson) was a really stark contrast. I don't blame him for the events that were transpiring.

I do always give extra credit to JQA though because he was against annexing Texas and I love him for that. If only they would have listened to him, we wouldn't have to hear about Jerry Jones.

 

Because they are biased?

Because they are often tone deaf?

Because they deal only in metrics and have no feel for the reality of daily life for Americans?

The quality of a president is determined by the people they serve, not by a infinitesimal group of (possibly biased) scholars.

To bring this closer to home, It's like when an expert coach said that Franks should be playing over Trask when the public all knew better.

Experts overthink. Experts often like to hear themselves sound smart.

A POTUS should be ranked by their approval of their constituents. Period.

If you wanna rewrite history then let the people do that too. I don't give two craps about some nerd crunching metrics.

 

Thats up to them to decide. What do British people think now?

Its certainly not up to me to decide how good a British PM is and it's not my place to tell them they are wrong

 

My lower quadrant is based on his approval ratings of the people. ...And the fact that he was only really physically capable of about 1/2 of one term as POTUS.

Lets be honest. The past 18 months have been awful for him.

 

Right...and that is what ultimately matters.
Not sure what there is to disagree with.

We can hate him all that we want. The people elected him...twice

 

Well, he was quoting me, I'm hardly Maga and I put Willy Jeff pretty high on my list of POTUS that did a good job. (I know you werent aiming the maga stuff at me...just sayin )

I'm just saying that Biden has had a weak admin. His physical decline has been ongoing in his 4 years and he really only had 2 good years health wise....if we are being honest. And his approval ratings are terrible.

Clinton and Reagan had the best two approval ratings. That is what matters. End of story.

They pleased the people that elected them.

 

Ha pleasing the “people at the time” is exactly the mindset that led to Trump and populism. Presidents are evaluated on their impact to America long term. Not when they leave office.

 

Joke’s on you! Those massive tax cuts he gave the wealthy definitely trickled down to the crumbs on my table!

 

I like that there is one that is “JA.”

I feel like DT should get “JA4reelz.”

 

Adams was quite adept with foreign policy (not surprising considering his background), but he was a disaster domestically. When your domestic legacy is passing some of the most infamous federal laws in U.S. history (brazen attacks on individual liberties), you aren't even an average President. And before you try to absolve him, Adams supported the Sedition Act, and his executive branch enforced it. There's also the Judiciary Act of 1801, where Adams and the lame-duck Federalist Congress altered the composition of the judiciary right before they were leaving office to try and benefit their own party after the Democratic-Republicans trounced them in the election of 1800.

This country did end up on good footing, but that's because Adams lost. That isn't to say that the Jeffersonian Presidents were perfect. They weren't. But Adams and the Federalists were very much headed in the wrong direction in their quest to hold onto power. It's really too bad. Adams was such a pivotal and authoritative voice in the Revolution and the founding of the nation. Bad President, though.

 

I think government spending as a percent of GDP declined over the last 4 or so years of the Reagan.administration. Recall that Reagan had a Democrat House for 8 years and a Republican Senate for just the last 2 years of his presidency (if I'm remembering my history).

Reagan drastically cut federal regulations by over 50% of the pages in the federal register.

Reagan had big tax cuts and revenues exploded

Reagan cut gov't spending as a percent of GDP, from 24%+ early in his administration to a little over 21%

Reagan supported the tight monetary policy that got rid of serious inflation