Trump blames Biden and California Gov. Gavin Newsom for deadly wildfires

Would you say their water lines are built to a different spec due to higher fire risk or is it a pretty standard thing (the spec used for fire hydrants)? Makes sense that fire hydrants are built to fight house fires, but if you are trying to tap dozens and dozens at the same time the pressure through the lines might not be there. I assume an engineer could calculate how many lines they can run in a particular system before losing pressure (assuming it’s running properly).

They should definitely be “over-engineered” given the insane fire risk, and if they weren’t that is probably a mistake but also not exactly an easy/cheap fix.

 

The problem with DEI is that organic social issues can't be solved with rigid corporate HR rollouts. However, they can be exploited for PR and leverage, which is exactly what DEI (not Social Justice) is all about. Oh, and throwing bones to HR with nonsensical positions like "Diversity Manager." Remember, "DEI" is the product of Blackrock. . . not some organic protest movement.

And it works too. Look at all the liberals simping for the likes of Blackrock because of DEI. That was one of the main purposes of DEI (compromise the enemy).

 

Again my experience is from a much smaller municipality and a different water system but as an example, we had a strip mall fire a few years back. Multiple aerial master streams and 2 and a half hand lines (bigger than normal hose line) operating. Around 6 or 630 a.m. we had a sudden decrease in residual water pressure almost cavitating the pumps attributed to people waking up and taking showers, flushing toilets etc. The water dept had to remotely bump up the pressure for us. Water and delivery systems are finite. Obviously people know that but it's different when it becomes reality in actual practice. I doubt there is a system around built to fight entire neighborhoods on fire but there are tactics they could use to work around it some.

 

Water systems, like electrical, are not designed for worst case scenarios. That’s basically what people are advocating.

 

the system is designed for the pipes and pumps to deliver potable demand with enough fire flow for a house fire or two. it isn't designed to open up 40 hydrants in a 10 sq mile area to fight fires in high winds. that requires bigger pipes and more interconnects and likely bigger pumps. every location has different design criteria. if my muni was subject to high winds and forest fires, i would account for that in the system design with expected demands much higher than what they apparently used.

 

I think they are designed for "bad scenarios" but worst case scenarios aren't often fathomable until something Iike this happens. That or they are hedging their bets it couldn't get to this point against the costs of building it to that degree. As the post above mentioned, they aren't designed to open multiple hydrants at one time either. Two at the same time creates a noticeable change at our water dept for example.

 

Makes you wonder about the people trying to hose down their houses. IDK, could that have affected it in the way you described morning routines?

 

Maybe but a garden hose puts out between 9 and 17 gallons per minute? Thats what a quick search said anyway. A 1 and 3/4 inch (fog nozzle) fire hose for interior fighting puts out around 125 gpms. A 2 and 1/2 inch about 265 gpms. There is a whole spectrum in between for smooth bore nozzles. Anything after 300 gpms is not considered a handline as there is too much pressure to handle so those are considered master streams. Pump sizes vary so the numbers aren't firm but when you see a ladder truck flowing water from the tip it can be anywhere from 400 to 1000 gpm generally speaking. We don't run anything bigger than a 2 inch tip at 1000gpms in my dept. Industrial fire fighting like at refineries is a whole different ball game. All of that is just a reference. Point being I don't think it would have mattered. The demands were just massive.

 

A client of mine has a friend out there that managed to save his house while his neighbors lost theirs.
He bought a pump and fire hose and used his pool as a water source. The pictures of the aftermath I saw were crazy. His house was relatively unscathed.

 

I was thinking of thousands of people trying to hose down their houses to keep them from catching fire. Completely antidotal, but I saw interviews with people who were able to save their houses by doing this. Thinking a few thousand people doing this might take down the pressure. IDK. Just spitballing here.

 

I get it. I think it wouldn't be negligible. I just don't know how much difference it would make. Don't know what went on in their command center but I imagine they were blitzed by the speed and scale of this. I know nothing about the tactics they tried or how feasible any were when fire is traveling 5 football fields a minute as reported. Fire hoses take some time and manpower to layout, drain and move positions. Generally takes 3 people to reload an attack line for example. A 5 inch supply line is 100 pounds a section dry which is 100 feet. Lay a few of those out and reloading it is one of the least liked things to do on a fire scene. Maybe a fleet of brush trucks in the neighborhood would be or was one thing they tried. Much less water but much more maneuverable.

 

As I understand it the St Ynez reservoir is close to Pacific Palisades and that should have been where quick response helicopters picked up water to dump on the fire in its early stages.The reservoir was empty. Not sure what the wind situation was at the time. If I got any of that wrong enlighten me.

For those who think Trump politicized the situation that narrative was reversed by Ron DeSantis, who asked reporters to imagine if the LA mayor was a Republican...

 

The Santa Ynez reservoir was closed due to scheduled maintenance. Unfortunate, for sure. But it's unusual to have fires and Santa Ana winds in the area after Thanksgiving. Having the reservoir filled would have helped a little with the water and water pressure, but wouldn't have made that much of a difference given the conditions.

 

Lol, hydrants with no water but nobody's fault! Only in California...guess they just use 'em to generate parking tickets.

 

The hydrants weren't designed to fight a wildfire, burning entire townships, for days. Even with an additional reservoir, the water still would have run out. And it still wouldn't have made a difference. The fire was too big, humidity too low, and winds way to high to be able to beat this fire.