Three kids killed by shooter at Christian school

Ok, what do you think you are going to find with the information gathering you are proposing, and how do you propose to act on it?

You will probably find many have some sort of either some mental illness, or social non conformity or else some sort of other social trigger (bullying, girlfriend troubles, etc). I don’t think in most cases you will find much remarkable at home. Maybe a divorce or some family stress but that is pretty common.

With that information, what are you going to do with it?

 

No assumptions are being made. Whether it's no research is being done, or they are not releasing the research that *is* being done, the point remains the same. There's a lot of potentially useful information stored in the records of these folks. Why isn't this information being presented to the public as useful or not?

What does that have to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about analysis of the shooter from before the weapons were ever brought to campus Active shooter trainings?

What a patronizing comment. I have sought the information, and I haven't found what I'm looking for. I get the idea that some of you don't think the information could in any way be useful, that's fine, but that warrants a fairly neutral response. But why the animosity towards the idea unless you simply don't agree that such records should be released?

This comment warrants its own thread, but without getting too semantical: I'm not looking to excuse the accused of moral ramifications to a clear violation of society. I'm looking to understand all the factors that went into the actions to see where improvements can be made. It's odd that there's such a resistance presented on this idea...to me, at least.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

What type of information are we talking about? You could learn something about past abuse having been covered up; you could learn about over-medication (*or the possibility thereof*); you may learn nothing at all. But I think the information will help us to better understand the vulnerability in the process. and if *nothing* is found, then that in and of itself would be considered useful. It would indicate that such events truly are completely random and unpredictable...that would actually help an argument for gun control, in my opinion.

Again, it depends on what information is found; can it be linked to others with some sort of associated negative behaviors. Look at it this way: if *something* is a trigger for the behavior, then we need to learn how to manipulate that trigger. If there's a greater chance that *nothing* is a trigger for the behavior, then we need to recognize that this sort of stuff is completely random and that would actually help with gun control measures because there's nothing else to fix in the equation.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

OK. I see the pro gun angle you are coming from. “Over medication”. Some pro gun assholes have seen certain instances where mentally ill teens or young adults, on medication, shoot people up, so it must be the medication!!

Did it ever occur to you that it may be the mental illness?

How would you determine “over medication”? These are prescribed meds - but you are thinking you could see the raw data and better diagnose from afar the correct med dosage and mix?

A bipolar person could easily be taking a half dozen meds. Is that over medicated?

 

Yes, WES, you are assuming that either this info is not readily available enough or that people are not regularly researching the mass shooting phenomenon. And no, you're not trying hard enough to find the information if it is so important to you. America has a horrible gun violence problem. Quit trying to scatter the blame out.

 

Yeah, I have a reason to be skeptical about how they prescribe all that medicine. I'll be glad to share it with you over a beer, but not on the board. If you don't know anybody that's ever been over-prescribed, then consider yourself lucky. It's not the perfect science many folks seem to think it is. I also know people that these types of medication are serving well. It's not all bad. But again, *if* it's just "conspiracy nonsense" or what have you, then let the data show that. You are skeptical of one side being right; I'm saying, let's let the data show whose right. Just don't get the animosity towards the idea. It makes zero sense.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

The US seems to be unique in the # and magnitude of these mass murders, especially in schools, which tells me it is something in our system. I don't see how anyone can say they are random events since they pretty mych only occur here. Just ask yourself what is different in our society vs the rest of the world. It's a pretty quick answer for me.

 

No, I have intimate and first hand knowledge of how and why they are prescribed. You are right, it isn’t an exact science. It is to a degree trial and error. And what works now may not work in 6 months. One drug that may be prescribed helps a main symptom maybe 60%, but has a side effect, and another drug is used to treat the side effect. Etc etc. You end up with a cocktail that helps some, but not 100%.

It’s logical to ask then why do them at all? In some cases if you don’t the person can’t exist in society at all.

So you may get a shooter with autism or bipolar and they take an anti-psychotic, and anti depressant, a mood stabilizer and something else. How do you determine if he is over medicated?

 

I'm not a data analyst, but I suppose there would be a way to record behavior variances in all other similarly (category of potential relevance) individuals based on medications prescribed. Heck listen to the side effects of the ones they advertise on TV. Many of them include "suicidal thoughts." Again, pattern recognition OR the lack thereof are potentially useful pieces of information.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

All due respect but you have no idea what you are talking about. You can have 2 people with the same diagnosis and have completely different treatment regimens. So what does a young male autistic shooter who takes 10mg of Olanzipine tell you? Or maybe 10mg Aripiprizole? Is that too much? Or maybe it wasn’t enough? How do you know?

The warnings in some cases are exaggerated given the context of who they are treating. A depressed person could be suicidal. An SSRI may reduce the depression and anxiety. But in reducing anxiety it may cause you to have less anxiety about thinking about suicide.

 

LOL, what exactly was this in response to because your follow up makes no sense to me as to what you are getting at and why?

You look for patterns across a wide array of data. I don't know what to look for; but again, the point: if something is there find it...if not, then that goes to justify that these things are perfectly random. Do you believe they are random or do you think there are potentially some markers that we could learn more about?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

The fact that you think you can find patterns based upon what meds are being taken, and conclude that they are “over medicated” is just nonsense. You don’t seem to really understand psychiatric illness and treatment …which is fine, most people don’t, but when you start thinking you can reverse engineer the interactions of meds and mental illness based upon a collection of anecdotes of mass shootings you clearly have no clue.

 

Let's ban sex. Strike the ROOT!

 

I have no problem with that. My kids, only have 1 left attending a private school have a retired police officer for their own security. I know a few of the staff also have concealed weapons but they kept that private.
Let's be honest, if a lunatic wants to go into a school, church, grocery store or any event no matter what type a gun they have or knife, hammer, screw driver etc they'll still be able to kill someone before being taken out.
All the laws and weapon bans you want wouldn't have stopped this wacko

 

Are you claiming the cops aren't good guys? Maybe you should realize that if those brave cops didn't react as fast as they did it would have been way worse. Yes the good guys stopped this wacko for good

 

And truly what would that accomplish? It's not the weapons it's the induvial, you can't stop crazy. In your world there would be no guns, then you'd turn to knives etc

 

I agree, now they're reporting that she's a transgender

 

I agree that won't stop and wacko from killing but it would most likely prevent it from being worse. Even if all assault rifles were banned this still would have happened

 

Someone with 3 kids these stories are horrendous. Just the quick overhead camera angles of the school and there were multiple unsecured ingress points. You could make the argument that you wish we didn’t need to secure the facilities, but while people have that debate seems hardening of these facilities should be done immediately. Most options are relatively inexpensive.

 

Why would I claim that? I'm generally pro police although I don't think they are infallible like some. This was a "good response" but I'm not going to use it as a chess play for "more guns " or act like only 6 dead is an acceptable trade off. Some here have made the claim that school shootings are used to push gun control because people get emotional about them......

So while it was a great response by the police I'm not going to listen to people brag on how few dead kids and random adults there are this time as they oppose any and all discussion over prevention.