Three kids killed by shooter at Christian school

Well stated by Pakman, per usual. He really triggered right wing media with a tweet the other day about the shooting and now they’re all coming after him for simply speaking the truth. So much for that freedom of speech you all love to claim to care about.

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761


Misleading? Cherry picking? Here are the charts. There was already a continual uptrend in child gun deaths that looks like it started in 2013-ish. In 2020 there were apparently spikes in both gun deaths and auto deaths. I’d say the only thing “misleading” is that guns as of that last data point outpace auto deaths more because the rates of automobile deaths had declined dramatically since the 2000’s.

But you can also see from the chart, the intersection where gun deaths became #1 looked sort of inevitable and already got pretty close in ‘18 and ‘19 before anyone had heard of COVID. To frame it as a covid blip in the data or “cherry picking” is not terribly honest of you. One could argue you are doing exactly what you are accusing these data scientists of doing. It could be that guns fall back to #2 in 2021, but the long term trend is visible nonetheless, whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not.

 

These stats would be helpful if correctly reflected the concern and they used terms such as gun crime not gun ‘violence’. Those are purposeful obfuscations meant to sway Vs inform. If someone is honest and removed accidents and suicides I would be willing to have a debate and put options on table. But ‘gun violence’ and ‘self murder’ part of the equation then the person is not being serious nor honest.

Oh and in before ‘suicide doesn’t bother you’ nonsense

for starters I would be fine with background checks on private sales. Both parties drive to a local FFL dealer and he charges a fee $50 for administering the background check and confirming ID.

As always. My opinion

 

Oh I wasn't saying it was "solely" a covid related blip. But when you exclude children before 1 year of age and include 19 year old ADULTS in a study on cause of death in CHILDREN, you are excluding a bunch of natural causes of death, but do you know what you are pulling in a ton of?

A hell of a lot of gang- and drug-related violence, especially in the young Black male community. You know as well as I do that when people think of child deaths by gun, they are thinking of little Johnny gets a hold of daddy's gun and accidentally shoots his sibling, not young gang member killed in drug deal gone wrong by rival gang member.

The leading perpetrator and victims of gun violence in the chart you showed are young Black males. We are systemically failing them. That is the biggest rock to move in the gun violence problem set.

 

I think a better option for background checks is to open NICS up for public use, and allow a buyer to go online, provide the necessary information, and obtain a control number that the seller can use to validate that they are not a prohibited person. Don't tie it to the gun (thus no registry), but allow the seller having a control number and a bill of sale to absolve them of any and all liability. Should the seller choose not to require a background check and sell to a prohibited person and that gun is used by that person in a crime, they would have strict civil liability for any crimes committed by the buyer with punitive damages and loss of right to own firearms, in addition to felony criminal charges if knowledge of prohibited person status can be established.

At that point, background checks wouldn't be universal but you'd establish the right incentives in the system so that folks wouldn't screw around and find out when it comes to transactions with stranger or anyone they don't know very well. It wouldn't stop black market transactions or straw purchases but neither would universal background checks.

 

The plentiful availability of guns legal or otherwise and our permissive gun laws are part of that "systemic failure." Like everything else in America, the inequities of its wretched laws and institutions are felt by the most disadvantaged.

 

address poverty, broken households, income inequality, the war on drugs, etc. and the violence of all types in that community is significantly reduced. Guns are only a part of it and yet they do have legitimate, lawful uses.

 

Those things would certainly help IMO. But do you think the people who are most fervent about gun rights are into addressing those things? Or perhaps their gun ideology perfectly aligns with their social Darwinistic crushing the poor ideology? Are they divorceable? I dont see many social democracies where the populous is armed to the teeth.

 

Many in the gun community have far more libertarian and anti-authoritarian ideals. You'll find surprising support for things like ending the war on drugs, fixing policing and the justice system, etc. within the ranks of the gun community. The older fudds and those who come from law enforcement backgrounds tend to skew more towards what you would think of as republican policies, and it is always a bit of an interesting dynamic between the libertarian "will not comply" side and the republican "law and order" side, but in general the things most are aligned around is individual liberty, the freedom to pursue it in a manner aligned with their beliefs and values, and a desire to be enabled in doing so rather than hindered by their government. Most will fight fiercely for the right for others of all walks to be able to do the same.

 

Nashville school shooter ‘was hunting pastor who was counselling her’

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Said it earlier but when it was reported she went immediately to the 2nd floor that she was after someone in particular. Sad.

 

Haven't read the entire thread, but this needs to be said:

Kudos to Officer Rex and his haphazardly thrown together team. Unlike Uvalde, they ran toward the sound of gunfire and ended this quickly. Bravo Zulu.

 

so does C4

 

And killed his daughter instead. No words…

 

As Helix noted, the people that tend to be very socially conservative and mainline GOP in the gun community tend to be the same crowd who is more open to gun control (and that gun control groups tend to seek out when they want to say “even Republicans support gun control”): it’s the “you don’t need 15 rounds to kill a deer, just a good ol’ thuddy-thuddy” and the “well when I was a cop we carried revolvers” crowd.

While you’re not going to find a ton of champions for welfare in the gun rights crowd, you’ll find a whole bunch of “the government should leave everybody alone on all these issues” folks, running the gamut from fairly libertarian to full-blown anarcholibertarians.

If your idea of the gun folks is the NRA, you’re going to be surprised to find that most folks who are more into guns than your casual “I bought a shotgun at Academy” crowd hate the current version of the NRA.

 

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more terrible. (Redacted about 8 words that would get me a Too Hot vacay.)

 

The NRA is about money

 

How does NC empathize with shooting tragedy?

North Carolina legislature overrides veto and repeals permit requirement for handgun purchase

 

In the body camera video, Hallie’s body was the one lying in the hallway as cops made their final approach on the shooter.

If only she were armed, she would have had a chance.

 

the NRA is about Wayne Lapierre, the Cat Lady, and their cronies