The world was created or just is?

Fair enough, I regard your lot as moralizing grown-up germs.

 

There is no God. All this just happened. Resentment is a snake hissing.

 

There’s a difference between saying “I believe” and ”I know”. If you talk to many who believe in God, they will tell you they know he exists, without question. But then… why is it called “having faith”? Why is called “belief in God”? You can’t know and believe at the same time.

I believe that certain scientific concepts accurately explain phenomena. I couldn’t say I know for sure. Full disclosure I studied History of Science in undergrad, and this is a main discussion that takes place in the field. You can know the empirical data, but when it is used to construct a theory, that theory becomes something which requires belief.

The main difference, which I don’t think you contextualized in you post, is that those who believe in a scientific theory are not obligated to believe in it to the point of saying they know it to be true. In religion, expression of doubt is typically not allowed.

 

Respectfully, calling it a cop out doesn't explain how it is. There has to be some sort of evasive or excusive aspect for something to be a cop out. Lack of imagination doesn't bother me, seems like if you believed it to be true, that wouldn't make it any more imaginitive.

Sure, at this point, it's a debate over definitions, but none of what we discuss as the beginnings of the universe is fundamental to the idea of being a Christian.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Can you share more about what you see as the difference?

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I operate as a former pastor and a lifelong doubting believer who is not an active member of any religious group.

And I observe censure and ostracism across the board. And none were more oppressive than the gatekeepers of the self-proclaimed scientific community 2020ff.

 

Interesting; you gave an example of something that has never been and said that it has never happened. What is it that has always been that never happened? Did the earth happen? did the sun happen? Did the solar system happen? What in the universe has always been? What is the universe without that which is within it?

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,WESGATORS

 

It’s generally a waste of time arguing with Hindus.

 

Can you know a person and have faith in the person at the same time?

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I think it is sort of an excuse to just imagine a being much like yourself, only more powerful creating all the stuff people themselves didnt create. Perhaps its the best people could do for a long time, given our ignorance and lack of structure to the world to explain things. I would imagine some would make the argument that the "big-bang" or other attempts at explanation are oversimplified or cop outs in the same manner. There probably is a reason science isn't deeply focused on such an explanation, and maybe some view that as a cop out too, because that is evasive of a question. But should science attempt to answer the unanswerable? By offering an explanation are we excusing or evading our lack of ability to answer it?

 

I don't consider any of this arguing. I don't expect to change anybody's mind here, but I love trying to understand more about the way others think.

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,WESGATORS

 

I understand and sympathize. I’m just pointing out that “always is” is a thousands of years old religious belief.

 

Aren't you creating a dynamic and calling it true? Is it possible that this is not how all people who believe in God think?

The existence of God is not a question for science; we both agree that nature has properties and that science can help us to understand more about these properties.

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,WESGATORS

 

When people say they “have faith” in God, they are not saying they have faith in the same way as having faith in a person with respect to reliability or trustworthiness. The way you used the word just now is in a more casual sense. Also, it is somewhat heretical in Christian religion to claim you “know” God. When people use “know” in relation to God, they are likely referring to knowing he exists, which is not in line with what you said above.

 

There are some pretty simple paradoxes in the way we think about time and distance. For example, you can say every journey has a start and end, but if you must travel halfway first to reach any end point, then the journey is infinite and always ongoing. The idea of a creator also supposes the existence of something prior to creation, which is also a paradox, and negates the idea of nothingness as a possibility.