The target is on Target again ...

Before long conservatives won’t have anything left to buy.

 

One somewhat counter-intuitive aspect about the outrage over this line of swimwear is that it's designed to be more discrete and less revealing. Seems like something many would prefer compared to the alternative - so they and their kids don't see it. Should we infer that the people who are mad at Target would rather have transgender women flaunt their genitals as conspicuously and notoriously as possible?

 

Damn, humbled again by the master (de)bater

 

I think that is precisely their fear and worry actually. That's what the gender panic is all about, the lack of certainty and not knowing. A trans woman looking too sexy in a bikini and them getting excited or feeling attraction is their biggest fear!

 

That's an interesting thought. Do you think it's a general preference for clear binary rules and aversion to ambiguity? Or something more along the lines of fear of personally getting "tricked" by a trans woman?

Edit: I think you answered what I was asking.

 

I think it ties in to the overall crisis of masculinity conservatives are tapping into and exploiting, on the one hand you have to protect women from super-criminal bathroom predators and juiced up "men" kicking their ass in sports (which hits on their role as masculine protectors, and their own powerlessness), on the other you get this fear of being feminized or rendered vulnerable by possibly being 'fooled' into being sexually attracted to someone they regard as a "man," basically their own homophobia. I think their longing for strict(er) gender roles and obsessions "defining woman" sort of reveals their fear of ambiguity. As I mentioned on another thread, there is some irony here in that the stricter masculinity and feminity is policed the easier it would be for someone to "pass" in such a society. I recall the stories of women dressing as men to join the army during the civil war, in a time of modesty and more stable gender roles, such a thing raised little suspicion, there was little reason to suspect a woman would do such a thing. That also means it would be much easier during that time to do bathroom creeper stuff than today (assuming you looked the part). Today you have bathroom Karens filming masculine looking women thinking they are trans, dont think that was a concern during the 19th century.

 

Ironically the right has been so effective because they followed Saul Alinsky's organizing strategy.
Saul Alinsky pours for the Tea Party | Features | Roger Ebert

 

Like I said before I don’t think this is about serving an under served market. It is about signaling to a younger demographic who cares about this stuff. And that’s fine.

 

So would you say that them removing/relocating certain items is about signaling to an older more bigoted demographic who cares about this stuff? Kind of a confusing signal if you ask me.

 

Also, I think their crusade against gender affirming care and surgeries also plays into this. They all seem to argue its a choice adults can make, I just think they'd prefer a bulgy and hairy trans woman they could easily police vs. one that could fool them and blend easily. The first is less of a threat to their ideas of gender.

 

That makes sense. I guess it just seems like an odd result to me in this context.

/"I want to buy a modest swimsuit so people don't notice or stare at my bulge."

// "Oh no you don't! You're going to show us, and you're going to like it! Nice Try!"

 

That's exactly what they want, they can just dismiss them as a troubled man and in reality, so can society

 

The problem with Bluke's way is that he is prone to attacking other people's character, instead of having a debate about the topic. I know others do this as well, but it diverts the conversation away from the topic.

 

Perhaps they are just itchin' to see trans folk in some grape smugglers.

 

I wonder what the response would be if transgender women who've had top surgery started walking around topless wherever men can. Would that be socially acceptable to those who argue they're just men with male nipples? Or would they have to concede that it's complicated because they couldn't tell? Could be a bit of a quandary.

 

I think this would trouble them less than the other way, they never talk about men's bathrooms or locker rooms, which is also revealing. A femme "man" in their view is easily subordinated in the men's realm, not so in their imagination about the women's realm, there he is a predator - a threat. As I alluded to before, their imagination is permanently stuck in a middle school locker room and its hierarchies or some 80s sex comedy. Pussies get beaten up by alpha jocks, and all dudes, even the pussies and nerds are always trying to get a peep of girls changing.

 

I think both of your points are smart and logical, but I don't think logic applies in these arguments. This is some deep lizard brain stuff

 

I think its impossible to understand people's motivations here without some psychoanalysis and abstraction

 

Man you’ve really given this trans thing a lot of thought. Maybe you’ve considered making a change…

 

Another thought I've had is that perhaps your performative masculinity and aggression on this board is a way to cope with you doing a traditionally feminine role of child care and the thoughts it gives you about your own masculinity. Maybe not, you could just be like this no matter what you do.