The spreading GOP destruction of public education

So YOU propose something that will essentially amount to an immense transfer of wealth from predominantly red jurisdictions to predominantly blue jurisdictions and I'm the one that has my head up the deep ass of politicians?? LOL...yet another trademark of communist ideology. When all else fails, accuse your opponents of being political when they point out the vast transfer of wealth you just proposed that just so happens to benefit areas that are overwhelmingly part of your base and disadvantages areas that lean pretty heavily against your party. Honest question: have you read the Communist manifesto? If not, it's worth the read. You might be shocked to learn how many techniques and talking points you are echoing from it.

 

I was referring to public schools, which is the topic at hand. Any school that operates solely as a business will fail to meet the needs of the students. Can you explain what you mean by having the gov back stop expenses?

 

Watch out. Scatterpoint correlation confuses them

 

Ha.

You aren’t even making sense here, so I’m going to help you out by making it real simple-like.

I, the free marketeer am generally against vouchers, therefore I am not in favor of any “immense transfer of wealth”.

If you say every kid should get a voucher, it is YOU who is in favor of this “immense transfer of wealth”. Me making an exception, like in some totally failed inner city school system, does not represent “immense transfer of wealth”, and if it did then what the hell do you think taking it statewide or nationwide would be?

I would actually say even handing out vouchers to all doesn’t necessarily represent a wealth transfer. At least not in the way you think it does. Let’s say you, the generous communist, “give” a family with 4 kids $5,000 per kid to “choose” a school. So $20,000. $20,000 is probably a lot more then that family paid in property taxes, but it also isn’t exactly increasing their personal wealth to give them the vouchers. Instead, it’s giving them the illusion of choice, surely with $5000 they can afford to send little Johnny to Princeton Prep now!! Nope.

You seem to be under the impression if you just give people money, they will all be able to enroll in top performing schools. As I continue to point out, these schools top perform because they select students and have limited spots. So what happens if you give people $5,000 so they can go to a school that costs $15,000? That school gets incrementally more applicants. Guess what, that school admits mostly the same kids and now has pricing power to charge them $20,000 instead $15,000. Who benefited? To scoop up all the kids who still CANT get into the top tier schools or even with the $5,000 can’t afford that tuition difference, you end up with lower tier charter schools which actually have shown to not be particularly reliable or at best are mixed (in much the same way as public schools). As corrupt local politics gets involved, you see bribes and angling to be “exclusive” charter schools in an area. A bought and paid for monopoly with the illusion of choice. THAT is where your wealth transfer takes place. If it isn’t profitable, they close up shop and go away. Schools can’t do that. That 41% of them close is a HUGE red flag to me, and it should be to you. Mr. apolitical.

 

That is a stunning graphic actually. Not surprising, but makes it much easier to see where all of the hate comes from with these people.

 

Good to know you’re pro-voucher and you just happen to have hours of free time to spend here telling us all how bad vouchers are, even though you’re pro-voucher. Must to be nice to have hours of spare time to spend arguing against something you’re actually for.

What you don’t seem to understand is that if vouchers were half as inefficient as you are presenting them to be, the parents will figure this out. The doctors, lawyers, engineers don’t need you to explain to them why private schools are supposedly bad for their children, even though you support vouchers. They didn’t get to where they are listening to random message board poster who actually supports what they want to do, but spends hours discussing the cons of what they want to do. Again, kudos to you for having so much spare time to spread the communist ideology, even though you’re a capitalist. It must be so nice to have this much time to piss down the drain. Arguing against things you actually support and all.

 

The discussion has been about public vs private.

The Gov can at will increase milage rates to put more money into public schools almost at will, that’s what I mean. If the teachers union forces a raise, when costs go up, etc, the school boards just bump the milage up. Private schools can increase prices but that is far harder to do.

 

Isn’t that a very interesting datapoint ? If the don’t approve them, then why not ? What do you believe is the reasoning behind local constituents not approving higher taxes for their local Schools ?

 

Especially in areas where the constituents are predominantly red or blue. Neither side can blame the other for failing schools if each side has ability to raise the funds for more but choose otherwise.

 

Because a big chunk of the population of Florida doesn’t give a shit about education, they’re retirees who were happy for other taxpayers to help pay for THEIR child’s education in another state. Move here and don’t want to pay for anything.

 

Because people always vote no when it comes to paying for things? Americans, even (if not especially) Republicans love them some free stuff.

Our HOA does surveys all the time. And it’s comical to see the results even on mundane stuff.

“Do you think there should be a sidewalk leading from road ABC to road XYZ?” - DEFINITELY!!!

“Would you to willing to pay community assessment of $25 to build sidewalks for road ABC to road XYZ?” - Hell Naw!!!

Sometimes people even vote no even in completely crazy or dire circumstances. Like they live in a golf course community where the developer pulls out or a private owner of the course is folding. So the course is about to turn into an overgrown eyesore. I know of several where the neighborhood had every opportunity to take over the golf course. Which you’d think would be critical to a gated golf community. But if it means increasing fees even $100 or $200 they will vote no every time. Yes not everyone even in those communities is a golfer, but they can’t comprehend what they just did to their communities RE values when they allow that to happen. Esp when the golf course is literally the central feature of their community, seems bizarre to me they don’t jump at the opportunity to have control over it. Instead they get overgrown weeds in their backyard, if not future condos. Uhh… ok good luck with that.

Hell I recall years back the city of Cape Coral was extending its water and sewer utilities. There were practically riots from people over having to pay for that (in fairness those were like $10,000’s of thousands in special assessments, and if you are cash poor that’s an issue). I believe in the end they just let them finance it over a very long time period. I’m just saying, if you’d told them “free water!” I’m sure there’d have been exactly zero pushback on utility expansion.

 

That may vary from place to place.

In my county the County council votes on the milage rate they control, each city council votes on their milage rates, the school board votes on their milage rates and the special hospital authority votes on their milage rate.

Valorem taxes or real property taxes

• Are based on the value of such property, and are paid in arrears – the end of the tax year.
• The tax year runs from January 1 to December 31.
• The office of the Property Appraiser establishes the value of the property, and the Volusia County Council, Volusia County School Board, city commissioners and other levying bodies set the millage rates.
• One mill equals $1 per $1,000 of property value.

Tax Collector - Volusia | Taxes.


In fact in Florida it’s all set by local governing groups.

According to the Florida constitution, all property tax rates are set by the state’s local governments—including county governments, city governments and school districts—and all the revenue from those taxes goes straight to them. That means the state itself actually doesn’t see or use any of that money.


Property Taxes in Florida: Everything You Need to Know.

Once in a blue moon the county may put forth a special sales tax increase to fund “special “ projects, those are hit or miss some pass some don’t.

They invariable never lower the rates either, when we have big market gains typically it’s a windfall for the cites as the more the properties are assessed the more money they take in.
Perhaps it’s different where you live?
What state do you live in?

 

In Florida he’s wrong. See my post above on who sets those rates.
May vary from place to place.

Furthermore the amount of collected taxes are tied to property values which go up almost every year (sometimes a lot) so they don’t even have to increase a rate and they get built in increases every year.

 

The Florida locals set tax rates within limits and the state caps what the rate can be, you often see voter approved sales tax measures to pay for those things.
The notion of just raising mileage rates willy nilly is udder poppycock, bigly. Just sucking hind teet in this argument.

 

Oak hall is a perfect example of a private school that was mediocre for a long time, than raised prices, and wow, suddenly it's a better school. 20k for high school now. So only people that are doing pretty well for themselves will send students there. School vouchers in Florida are about 8500 - do you think people from East Gainesville can really afford that? School vouchers give only the illusion of choice, not the reality, meanwhile it takes money away from public schools. The vouchers, as far as I'm aware, are also not income dependent now. So really this hurts the poor by weakening public schools, and just redistributes money to people that already have it.

Florida just expanded school vouchers — again. What does that really mean?