The Inconvenient Truth of Palestine

Maybe I was taught this decades ago and don’t remember, but can you or anyone else enlighten/remind me what that genesis of the Jew vs. Arab conflict was. Obviously this is a severe and extremely longstanding issue and as I sit I am ignorant of the basis.

 

Given that there is literally no place for Palestinians to go, this doesn't seem to me anything more than a fig leaf.

 

Overthrow Hamas and surrender to Israel. Far more people are going to die supporting Hamas than would die rising up against them. But, yes, I know that won’t happen. I know because I haven’t seen a single video of people trying to resist Hamas setting up their rockets, overrunning the border forts, or massing in Gaza to rape, pillage, and murder on October 7. I have, however, seen plenty of people celebrating in the streets of Gaza while the rockets were firing and such. There is only one acceptable response to the people of Israel, and Hamas damn well knew it. The people of Gaza are going to get what they want, though, we may disagree with that. The people of Gaza are not going to want what they get. We fully agree on that.

 

Agreed many Christians (as well as innocent Muslims and Jews) that have absolutely nothing to do with this conflict are caught in the crossfire. I’m familiar with the plight of the Palestinians and the rules in place and have always felt that Israel was doing what it had to do to protect its people. However I’m not blind and can see why the Palestinians are angry but…it is demonic to kill innocent civilians and they (Hamas) deserves what they get in retaliation.

 

I think it would be foolish to try to say "here's the one thing that started this all." There aren't any historical Israeli or Palestinian states in modern history, just very ancient analogues that form the basis of modern national ideas. In the modern sense, the Zionist movement began in Europe in the 19th century (which birthed all sorts of nationalisms and some of the conflicts of the 20th century) and they dreamed up a Jewish state and promoted immigration to Palestine because Europe was rabidly anti-Semitic and in the grips of their own toxic nationalism. It was all basically a pipe dream until the end of WWII, and I think it suited a lot of European powers to settle displaced Jews outside of Europe rather than reintegrate them into society. In places like Poland, their possessions and property had all been stolen and occupied by the locals. You can see how governments didnt want to deal with that when there was an easy solution of letting people immigrate somewhere else. Of course dropping people somewhere they have never lived is going to cause its own problems, but those were far removed from Europe!

 

That's so easy to do, right?

 

No. Just easier.

 

Is it?

 

If we took this seriously, who's going to arm them to do that? Is Israel going to be like "sure give them guns and let Palestinians organize a resistance?" Also like half the population of Gaza is literally children too. Some obvious problems here both demographically and politically.

 

The order was to evacuate the northern end of Gaza, not the southern end. However, your point is very valid. I was not offering commentary, just sharing what I am seeing on the news this AM.

 

To the victor goes the spoils. Hate begets hate. And the Palestinians never miss and opportunity to miss an opportunity.

I empathize with Palestinians who feel their land was stolen. But know what? That was a few generations ago. Israel one, you lost, time to move forward. Most land has been un dispute and under many different rules. I'm sitting on land once owned by O'odham Native Americans, Spain, Mexico, and now the US. I can acknowledge the past, and feel for those who have been wronged by it. But I'm not changing the present. It's legally mine now.

Until the Palestinians accept their fate that Israel exists, Jews control it, and aren't going anywhere, there will be no peace. Instead, all we seem to get from the non-Jews in the Middle East is hate. Hate begets hate, and will hate exists to perpetuate hate. As the quote goes, there will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jewish ones.

Hate also spreads. I have family in Israel. They were cautiously optimistic about the chance for peace 25 years ago. The Clinton agreement should have worked, but what was the Palestinian response? Another Infidata. More bloodshed. More hate, and now, the cautious optimism for peace Israelies once had. What took its place was hate for Palestinians. And this is how we get hard line Israeli leadership. And why the cycle continues over and over again.

1999 wasn't the only opportunity Palestinians had for peace. There have been others. But each time, they reject it and attack. The difference in 1999 was there finally was a Palestinian leader who understood the futility of the endless hate cycle. Of all people, it was Arafat, who after decades of fighting a stalemate that resulted in nothing but deaths on both sides, realized this way if living offered no hope for Palestinian future other than wash, rinse, repeat with more deaths on all sides. But again, in the end, the Palestinians chose to wash, rinse, repeat.

If there is ever to be peace in the region, the Palestinians must find their Ghandi, or MLK Jr., who accepts the current cycle is never ending unless the Palestinians stand up and agree with Israel to stop it. It won't be easy, but if Palestinian citizens want peace, they need to stop being the pawns of Iran, stop supporting leaders who launch terror attacks in Isreal, and stand up to demand an end to it all. Otherwise, just like we're seeing today, wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Sadly, I agree.

 

it's easier than fighting Israel, wouldn't you agree? that is the choice that Hamas has given them.

 

As I said, Hamas can surrender right now, or it can surrender, say, two weeks from now with all of the hostages dead and tens of thousands more Arabs dead, wounded, jobless, homeless, and hopeless. But surrender, they will this time. No internationally brokered ceasefires. They are going to have to look Israel in the eye this time and admit, “We started it, and we lost.”

 

Asked and answered, counselor.

 

The Native Americans provide an interesting example. Do you think they rolled over a few decades after we took their land? Or did they fight for a long time? And how much do you think they still resent the way we treated them and our taking of their land?

 

Hamas will give you guns to fight Israel, no one will give you guns to fight Hamas, so no it isnt

 

Oh, I know. It simply wasn't a realistic answer. If you want to justify the killing of women and children, have at it. But don't expect me to agree that is okay or to agree that they brought it on themselves because they didn't overthrow the violent group controlling their territory. Posing the latter point as if it's easily attainable (especially in the matter of a few days) is very disingenuous.

 

I thought that pressure to “I Stand With Ukraine” was pronounced. But now we’ve gone to a whole ‘nother level with “Either You Stand With Israel Or You Stand With Terrorism.” It concerns me that in increasing quarters one cannot so much as convey apprehension, much less plead for nuance, without being demonized.

 

My (perhaps) naive theory is that Hamas wants their dastardly incursion to be the catalyst that leads to a large enough war that escalates into annihilation of Israel. Obviously, Hamas cannot do that by themselves but a supportive and rogue much larger (nuclear) power could.