The Inconvenient Truth of Palestine

Eh, I don't really care about the situation all that much. Obviously, the attack by Hamas or whatever is tragic, but those people have been killing each other for centuries.
None of those so called countries are legitimate anyway. Arab, Sunni, Jew whatever. It's all one cluster. The only solution is removing religion from that region as all it does is invoke tribalism, which we know is impossible because people in that part of the world cling to religion.

 

As I said in the Anzalone thread. I am truly sorry for what has happened. I am more sorry for what I know is about to happen.

“Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.” - Earnest Hemmingway, 1946.

 

I feel for you, OP. I really do. And I’ve been very critical of Israel in the past. But not this time. Hamas must be destroyed. Absolutely no place for evil like that in the world. It is what it is. I hope your family is ok.

 

To me, there is no one side is responsible at this point, they are both simultaneously responsible for what is happening to civilians on both sides, and round and round they go.

Israel isn’t helping itself having a person like Bibi at the helm.

 

. You don’t need a point by point refutation of this to understand how much if it is nonsense. The minimization of Hamas actions and the description of the slaughter of over 1000 civilians as “sensational” is all you need to know. Whether Hamas beheaded babies or just slit their throats and burned them, they killed plenty of babies. And anyone who remembers the 1972 Munich games knows that the PLO was a terrorist organization And was not of Israel’s creation. He neglects to mention Hamas’ charter- to kill Jews everywhere. It’s in the other thread. Just read it. And this has never been about a two state solution. That has been rejected twice— once when it was a return to the 1948 borders when it was offered after the 6 day war. And in 1999 when there were land swaps and road systems offered to connect what would have been Palestine. Not a deal forced on Palestinians, but negotiated with them through Bill Clinton’s mediation. The “occupation” has long been defined as the presence of Jews anywhere west of Jordan, south of Lebanon, north of Egypt and east of the Mediterranean. OP fails to mention that after repudiating they 1999 agreement they negotiated but would not sign, in 2000, they started an Intifada. Was that about a two state solution? The Palestinians had just rejected it. That led to the checkpoints and development of separate road systems and the checkpoints. A lot of money flows to the Corrupt PA while the scream “occupation” and to Hamas for its “resistance.” Make a deal and that dries up. And, what have Palestinians done in other countries? Lebanon in 1970– they tried to overthrow the Heshamite King Hussein. Lebanon in the early 1980s— they set up a separate government in the South. Kuwait in the 1990s— where Palestinians had jobs. They welcomed Saddam Hussein as a liberator. 2005- Gaza was given to the Palestinians to administer. They destroyed infrastructure and elected Hamas as their leadership— leading to Gaza being the secure area it is. Meanwhile Hamas has called for the killing of Jews all over the world? What does that have to do with a two state solution? There has not been anyone to negotiate with and that has been evident since 1999z

 

Bottom line is while Israel is at fault for committing atrocities against the Palestinian people, Hamas did this terrible attack knowing full well that Israel would retaliate in a big way and basically Hamas doesn't care if innocent Palestinians die. For them it's worth it.

And that's what is difficult to destroy. When you have a group of people that think killing 1,000 infidel is worth losing 100,000 of your own "people", then there is no deal to be had. Goes for Taliban, AQ and other similar groups. Killing all Jews is worth whatever devastation that comes.

 

The “eviction” of your ancestors in 1948, huh? Would you care to recharacterize?

 

. Propaganda is effective for this who don’t know history. And this history is not well known in this country, which barely knows its own history

 

This is the root of all of it, some people will never accept any Palestinian grievances as legitimate.

 

NPR reporting this as well.
This is just brutal. How many elderly, sick or the infirm will die or suffer under such an order.

This is a Bataan Death march for many many people.

I suspected this would happen. A humanitarian catastrophe.

 

Such an order may very well bring other Arab nations into this catastrophe.

 

Which begs the question, why did Hamas want it so bad? This was the response they wanted from Israel. It, again, brings to mind the words of Golda Meir: “We will have peace when the Arabs live their children more than they hate us.” They don’t.

 

Here is a history of the Arab exodus from Israel on 1948. After the creation of the State, Israel was attacked within hours by all 5 neighboring countries. Israel barely had time to form a central government to establish any policy when it was defending itself. Little doubt there were forced evictions. But the overwhelming majority of those who left expected the 5 nations to win the war and left. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/palestinian-refugeeshttps://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/palestinian-refugees

 

History always begins at convenient times in these arguments

 

He is right. It is a human catastrophe. Which was Hamas’ goal. Sadly, civilians in the way of military objectives suffer in war. Which is why legitimate governments don’t set up missile and rocket launchers in cities. Btw: have you noticed that since the Israeli strikes on Gaza and the shutdown of power, there are few reports, of any, of rockets into Israel instead of thousands every day? Sites and launchers and storage destroyed and they can’t charge the batteries to obtain
Power to launch because the power is off.

 

The people that know the most about it are typically the most entrenched on the subject (particularly those that have a personal connection) one way or the other

 

The OP laid out the OPs view of history while minimizing the terror attacks. So, I am laying out the history.

 

That’s right. They left. Under their own free will at the request of the Arab armies. And they did so with the promises that they could have the Jewish land and property when they returned upon Arab victory. Well, there was no Arab victory. The Arabs who remained in Israel got to stay, and their ancestors remain to this day. The ones who gambled on leaving for greater riches got nothing, not even a welcome from their fellow Arabs into one of a dozen existing Arab countries. You’ll forgive the Jewish people for not resettling them … especially when they had to resettle all of the Jewish who actually were evicted from the Arab countries and had all of their wealth stolen from them.

 

We all know you will. It’s the same thinking that’s trying to uproot this country as well.
Very dangerous/irrational thinking you have.

 

I feel for the OP I’m the sense that I support a 2 state solution. But, who to negotiate with?