The future..

But he cheated at all of them. That’s the point the guy is making.

 

I recall his original question being along the line of not knowing why Holtz is/was so revered. He made a name for himself when he took an underdog Razorback team to the Orange Bowl against mighty Oklahoma, benched 3 starters before the game for something to do with a woman in the dorm, making his team an even bigger underdog, and then beat the pants off the Sooners.

He then won a national championship at Notre Dame. Anybody remember the 1992 Sugar bowl? We were ranked #3 and Notre Dame was #18 — and we were pissed we got such a low ranked opponent. We literally threw ourselves under “The Bus”.

The man could coach, and he was a highly effective motivational speaker. Sure he cheated but so did everybody — of course only some teams were singled out for punishing. But regardless of that, Holtz was a hell of a coach and Arkansas and ND fans thought he walked on water.

That’s my answer to why he was revered as a head coach

 

His implication was that he cheated to accomplish all of those things and he shouldn’t be so revered. It wasn’t so much a literal question of why Arkansas and Notre Dame fans might like him. More a question of why we, as a society, put people like this on such a high pedestal.

Do you think North Carolina’s academic prestige should still be held in such high regards after publicly admitting that they allowed all students to take fake classes?


This is the same kind of question.

 

Ok — I know better than to engage in a back & forth with you buddy

 

If no one else has fake classes then, no they shouldn’t be held in high regard. I think we know the answer to this

 

I will never be able to decouple the Bryant/Pell connection and the difference in how Pell was treated despite learning it from Bryant. I wonder where florida would be and if Miami and fsu would have ever had the chance to amass the talent advantage they had for the late 80s and early 90s that sprung their successes and hindered ours. We suffered the worst probation in memory after SMU and their death penalty. And the college football world just acted like the blue bloods were winning clean.

I see Saban as Bryant 2.0 along with smart who were acquiring talent at ridiculous levels prior to NIL. Saban has the audacity to state that he has never bought talent prior to NIL. Spare me...

 

And before they ever won anything. They were doing good to be .500. When I was at UF, Miami wasnt even considered much of a rival. Fans were pretty indifferent to the game. Schnellenberger changed all that in the 80s.

 

Ding, ding, ding…..

 

Football is constantly evolving... the next "SOS" is out there, but he won't do things exactly like SOS did it. But there are some coaches that can figure out how to outsmart today's coaches... we just haven't found him. Having said that, I still believe Napier is the coach we need right here and right now.

 

Meh

 

Sports and cheating kinda go together. I doubt there has ever been a college football national champion fully on the up and up. We would never start an accused rapist to win a national championship but we have our own players admitting they were paid. I don’t recall what Hiltz did but I don’t remember anything vile .
And North Carolina academics? Do you think they were passing out high level degrees for cash or letting the prima donnas get an A in underwater basket weaving. Football degrees and your typical degree from most schools aren’t the same thing. Schools make east degrees to cater to athletes that have no business in a college classroom at a community college. There have been several gators that are clearly not intelligent enough to be in any college classroom. Does that reflect badly on UF? I say hell no, they are football players, not students. Like they would be there if they couldn’t play football, Gtfooh.

 

Ahh, that was a classic SOS rationalization. He knew full well how important it was to beat FSU. In state bragging rights, recruiting, the works. Not everything SOS said should be taken at face value.

That he did, and for those of us who remember, 52-20 is a score that is etched in our hearts. That and the 2006 MNC was among my proudest moments as a Gator...

"You never forget your first time..."

 

Arguably our best team ever.

 

For playing by the same rules everyone else did? It's like impeaching a President. Everyone knows they won't get convicted by the Senate and removed from office. It was all political show. Speaking in Pell's defense, I am hard-pressed to think what he did differently than Bryant, Dooley, Vaught, Dye, Jordan, Majors, or the sainted Bobby Bowden...among many others.

Yes, the tu quo que defense ("they did it too, and they didn't get punished!") never works in a court of law, but everyone knew what was going on...

 

Gotta disagree a bit. He built the foundation at USCe. After burning down the barn like Pell did in 1979, Holtz had a 33-26 (.559) record there, USCe's best since joining the SEC (they were 47-60-4 (.441) prior to Lou since joining the SEC). Spurrier's first five at USCe was 35-28 (.556), before opening a four year streak. Holtz's buildup was not as strong as Pell's of course, but it was a solid foundation.

 

I said Arkansas and Notre Dame

 

My earlier comment wasn’t really a critique of Charlie Pell, it was more of a criticism of Lou Holtz who is held up by many as a patron saint of college football while possessing a troubling history of REPEATED institutionalized NCAA violations everywhere he was a head coach.

 

While its true beating FSU was probably important to the HBC wrt his program. The gator nation had dominated fsu at one point and definitely had experienced success vs them longterm. On the other hand winning the SEC had been elusive for the gator nation hence his public sentiment and i believe given a choice he would always choose winning the SEC, it would keep intact the team goal of a NC as proven by 1996. Beating fsu was just bragging rights and SOS is/was a practical guy

 

But you said the others, not so much. Building USCe into a consistent winning team in the SEC was a rather strong accomplishment.