The Dark is Getting Darker

Perhaps to an American. Let’s face it, art history ain’t our strong suit.

As noted above, there are MANY examples of renaissance art that would fit this scenario that are NOT DaVinci’s Last Supper.

 

Anyone using Jesus' image to make a political statement is blasphemy. Have you not seen me crush Trump for it a million times and slam his pandering rhetoric?

Stop acting like I'm only doing this because they are gay. I've done this about Trump. I said it about the messiah meme for Obama. I've railed against religious approval of Trump by saying he was basically king Saul in scripture. (Far from a compliment btw).

Jesus should never be parodied. Period.
Anyone doing it is it of touch with 2 billion people.

 

See my post above. It's all the same.

 

What’s political about this? Be specific.

But after watching the video, I’m no longer entertaining the idea that it was intended to be the last supper… unless Jesus was a DJ, his disciples danced like Madonna’s “vogue” video, the table was a fashion show run way, and their meal was strutting models.

The common factor I see is that both show people behind a surface, and Christian’s are losing their minds over this….

 

Outrage came from all over the world.
Heck, it came from political leaders in France.
Also italian politicians spoke out, while the Conference of French Bishops spoke out.

...And your response is "Americans"?

 

Shocker.

1. The political remark was a preface to my Trump statement as in that is ANOTHER way that images of Christ are misused.

2. They could admit it openly and you'd dig in.

Have at it. Kudos to your brethren on the right who arent playing coy.

I'll continue the discussion with them.

 

Oh. Didnt realize it was up to you. My bad.

 

You just don’t like facts. The people who created it are saying you got it wrong, and after seeing the actual video — not just the carefully selected stillshots people are posting — they are right. It’s people standing behind a runway, not a table, enjoying a fashion show. Maybe Christians have a claim to all depictions of people standing/sitting behind a surface, because that is really the only similarity…

 

Do you really think the Director had no idea that it would be mistaken for the much more famous painting?

If he had had white guys in blackface, would you expect him to take into consideration that that might be offensive to a large portion of the earth?

 

I'm a Christian, although don't go to church, you know justification by faith alone dogma of Presbyterians. I watched it, along with the entire opening ceremony. One thing that jumped out to me was the theme of fashion throughout as a celebration of French culture. Paris or NY fashion is over the top in general to make statements - about fashion and social commentary - equality being one which I think was intended in the last supper moment. I wasn't offended by it, as I put it into perspective of fashion and equality. I also understand how in today's sensitized environment, a Christian could be offended. That's just me and my view in looking at the entire show, which I enjoyed.

 

I have no idea what was in the director's mind and neither do you. It should be noted that people who are experts in an area often don't realize that pieces of knowledge are not widely held (i.e., he might very well think that this is a very obvious reference based upon his knowledge of art, especially French art). Regardless, is it his responsibility to stop you from getting offended because you didn't understand his reference?

Ummm, how in the world is this analogous? Here is the only analogue that I can possibly think of in regards to blackface: If you, as a non-New Orleans resident went to Krewe of Zulu, a historically black krewe that utilizes blackface, supposedly due to the initial members using it to mock white minstrel actors and reclaim it by acting as fierce warriors in blackface, that they need to stop doing it because it is their responsibility to make sure that you aren't offended because you don't know the story behind it.

 

I was responding to River. I assume he is an American since he lives in Jacksonville. Not sure that I would characterize this as worldwide “outrage”

Not sure why you can’t entertain the thought that perhaps this was not a deliberate attempt to insult Christians. You still haven’t come to grips that Dionysus wasn’t at the Last Supper and that there are several works of renaissance art that depict a bacchanal. It’s almost like you WANT to be outraged and victimized.

 

The party that complains when another group is offended for some reason is always the one that feels offended. Liberal Christians aren't clutching their pearls over this

 

I admittedly haven’t watched this closely and still stand by my claim Snoop Dogg was the highlight of the Olympic Opening Ceremony.

This just seemed like controversy for the sake of controversy by the planners’ part. They were clearly mocking Christianity (which I normally support as a huge George Carlin fan). Not the time or the place in the Olympics which is about bringing people together to equally compete.

Imagine if they brought a bunch of drag queen’s out with an Islamic backdrop or mocked Jewish people. Getting the press they want…

 

See, I don’t think that they were deliberately mocking Christians. They weren’t really sitting at a table and there was a dude with grapes all over himself playing Dionysus. Seems more like an intersection of a party, Greek mythology, and wine.

 

If they weren’t doing it deliberately, they were leaving enough in to make it debatable and spark controversy. There is 0% chance they didn’t think at least some Christian’s would be offended by that. I don’t know anything about Greek mythology, and go to an art museum once a year. But they knew that image was going to create some controversy, and they achieved that goal.

You could say the same of Snoop Crip Walking with the flame, so I don’t really care.

 

Yeah, since my mind was already on Mardi Gras, from the earlier attempt at analogy, I will also add that French culture often utilizes Greek and Roman imagery around parties, frivolity, and drunkenness. For example, one of the more historical Mardi Gras Krewes in New Orleans is the Krewe of Bacchus, which is basically just the Roman version of Dionysus.

 

I suspect that they were definitely being edgy and controversial. The use of drag queens at all seems designed to be provocative. The use of a headless Marie Antoinette is very provocative (as was the vague threesome imagery at a different point as well). Not sure that they were purposefully trying to anger Christians by replacing Jesus with a woman.

 

France is a very secular society so perhaps it didn’t really register since they weren’t really seated at a table. Europeans are far more knowledgeable about renaissance art than most Americans and there are several “feast of the gods” types of paintings.


I will say as a Christian myself I think that this is a tempest in a teapot and some folks love to be persecuted victims. More egregious to me are the people that didn’t know that the headless women were representations of Marie Antoinette, right down to the fact that the building they were using as a backdrop was the prison where she was held prior to her execution.

 

Fair enough. Truly don’t have a horse in the race and art gets boring with no controversy.