The coming Trump Neofascist crackdown if he wins...

Trump has a decades spanning criminal career. Biden doesn't. Hence the disparity in the investigations.

 

So it's ok to investigate Biden based on some potentially shady business dealings by his son and/or brother. Which I agree with, that investigations are warranted. But why is it bad to investigate Trump based on gathered intel? Is it because they finally found some real dirt on Trump, and can't find any real dirt on Joe Biden yet?

Again, why is it impossible that Trump is as dirty as hell, but Joe Biden, while not lily white, doesn't really have enough dirt on him to stick him with anything of substance?

 

I'd rather politicians not be raided and indicted over actions every President in our lifetime has done.

Not saying there's nothing that satisfies that test, but taking classified documents home with you as President isn't one of them. It's certainly newsworthy, especially if he refuses to return them. But this should've been decided at the polls, not in court.

It's not "impossible," but it's sure as Hell convenient isn't it? It stinks to high Heaven.

I'm not asking for much, just the same amount of time the DOJ has had to investigate Trump. We're on about 8 years and counting. Have the DOJ tail the Biden Family for the next 8 years (and counting) and see what happens. Heck, I'll even humor you and you can cut it down to 4 more years (with more to be added as they search for more on Trump) if you think the timeline should've started in 2020.

 

At the end of the day, mount too many consecutive "conveniences" for the same people or group of people and it starts to look less like "convenience" and more like "conspiracy."

Not saying that's absolutely without a doubt how it is, but that's sure as Hell how it looks.

 

Disagree 100%. TS-SCI marked documents are marked so because they contain the deepest secrets the country has. These documents in the wrong hands are a major issue to national security. Full stop. They absolutely need to be secure facilities under proper guard. A Palm Beach club bathroom or ballroom with known spies who have been caught on premises it not appropriate. And you think voters should decide this is OK? WT actual F?

I'm just asking to follow the evidence. Where does it lead? Both for Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Truth is only convenient or inconvenient if you have a slant. But if you're just looking for the truth, it speaks for itself. Let the evidence speak. In the Russia collusion and pee tape stuff, not enough evidence for anything to really stick to Trump. But in the other cases? Different story. All of Biden's stuff? Even less evidence than what Mueller had on Trump. Sorry if you think the truth is convenient. That's on you.

 

Well, Trump had access to these documents as President and the people chose him to be President.

Considering that every President in our lifetime has taken classified documents home with them, and especially considering that Trump is running again, this should've been decided at the polls, not in court.

But a garage with a crack addict with shady business dealings with Chinese companies connected with the Chinese Communist Party is appropriate because Biden came out and said he did an oopsies?

And of course he only does this after he knows they're bringing the hammer down on his political rival over the same thing. Because wouldn't it look awfully hypocritical for Joe Biden to have classified documents from when he was VP as his DOJ is raiding Mar-A-Lago for Trump having classified documents from when he was President?

Oh, I have no qualms with the truth. My issue is with some people that are claiming to serve it and justice above all else. A lot of those people are looking like wolves in sheep's clothing right about now.

They're a dog with a bone when it comes to Trump. They won't let it go. But they're an ostrich when it comes to Biden.



"I don't see any evidence"

 

Trump didn’t cooperate and return the documents. In fact, he actively lied and schemed to keep them. That’s what obviously separates him in that one matter. I could understand this “all Presidents do it” argument if Trump was presented a list of most classified docs, and his response was “oops, my bad” - and then his team cooperated and proceeded to return those. That’s what literally every prior President would do. Trump did the exact opposite in terms of cooperation. Seems highly disingenuous/dishonest to suggest Trump is in any way typical.

Of course, Trump is practically a one man perpetual crime spree. How many times does this “all politicians do it” apply? Do they all commit financial frauds (technically civil cases, several of them going back to more blatant rip offs like charity fraud and Trump U fraud, now his NY business). Do they all pay off porn stars with political funds? Do they all try to use military aid for personal gain (Ukraine)? Do they all scheme to overthrow elections? Scheme to incite a riot at the Capitol? Hell, there are even outstanding issues like missing inauguration funds and selling pardons (no clue if there’s any ongoing investigations there).

It’s difficult to take these “so unfair” characterizations with so much publicly reported questionable activity. It’s literally impossible for the press to even keep up with all the garbage Trump was doing, and in a way that was probably the point (flood the zone with shit, the scent of shit becomes familiar… or even expected… “hey what’s the big deal, just another witch hunt”).

 

Once the clock hit Jan 20, 2021 at Noon Eastern, Trump was no longer POTUS. His access to keep the documents at his residence ceased. According to the Presidential Records Act, all documents were to be kept at a secure facility handled by the the National Archives. While Trump would have unfettered access to these records, MAR was not, and has never been a NARA approved facility.

Leakages of classified docs happen. And when the person with the docs cooperates fully with the Feds to ensure all docs are returned post haste, charges are rarely filed unless the docs were super sensitive, and damage was done. Very rare, since most classified docs aren't that sensitive. The US produces something like 50 million classified docs a year, and most aren't Top Secret.

Again, leakages happen. If the docs weren't TS, and the person involved, in this case Biden, cooperates fully in returning all docs, then it's case closed. Trump was given the same opportunity. Instead, not only did he keep certain docs, he lied on an affidavit about keeping them, and took action to keep the docs hidden. Biden had nothing to do with getting the docs back. He didn't order the raid. But NARA, who rightfully and legally should have been in possession of the docs, was left with no choice when Trump refused to cooperate.

And once again, TS-SCI documents should never be held in a non-secure facility. Any evidence the docs either Pence or Biden had were anywhere near this sensitive? There is evidence the docs they had leaked were not, since the Justice Department decided not to pursue charges. Again, a full investigation was warranted, and no problem with it. But if the truth is Biden and Pence both had some low level classified docs that were not a threat to national security, and both did cooperate fully in returning all docs, then the Justice Dept did the right thing by closing the cases. Trump? We know he didn't cooperate, and we know he had high level classified docs. Different story when you look at the truth and facts.

Bull. The facts are Trump didn't cooperate with returning the docs. Biden and Pence did. The truth is Trump called the GA Governor and AG and specifically asked them to find a specific number of votes. What D has ever done this? The truth is Trump lied about evaluation on business forms. What evidence is there Joe Biden profited from Chinese or Ukraine business deals? Hunter and James Biden. Yes. But again, there is sworn testimony Joe didn't involve himself in his son's or brother's business deals.

The truth is what it is. Show me Joe hiding TS-SCI docs in his garage and that Hunter shared them. Show me Joe profiting from his son's business deals. Right now, you, nor anyone cannot. That is the truth.

 

To make these sophistical arguments, you have to boil everything down to "Biden and Trump both had documents" and ignore the major fact pattern differences of the circumstances.

Right wingers over and over prove they can't understand differences of degrees in situations.

"Look, Trump conspired with Putin to win in 2016 but Biden got a parking ticket once. They are virtually the same."

 

Whine about level of classification and cooperation all you want. Both Biden and Trump violated the Espionage Act and mishandled classified documents. Only one was indicted. THAT’S the truth.

Also, what number of votes was Trump asking for?

 

That's of course a ludicrous conflation. However, unlike Pence's case being dismissed, Biden's has not yet been.

 

Someone forgetting to pay for a candy bar at a self-serve kiosk is shoplifting. So is grabbing thousands of electronics and making a run for it with never any attempt to pay. Think they are the same? Deserve the same punishment? Of, should the guy with the candy bar be allowed to go back in and pay for it? Whereas the guy trying to steal thousands worth of stuff should be arrested on the spot if caught?

The TRUTH is Trump lied about having the documents. Biden did not. The TRUTH is Trump tried to hide the docs. Biden did not, and allowed the Feds complete access to his home and former office. TRUTH is also we know Trump absolutely had top secret, ulta-sensitive materials. We don't know what Biden had.

If the speed limit is 55 mpg, and one car is doing 57 mpg, and the other is doing 95 mph, are you going to whine when the cops only stop the guy doing 95? TRUTH is both cars were speeding!

 

Oh, and Trump asked for specifically 11,780 votes in Georgia. The exact number he officially lost the state by.

 

So you don't want to pull people over for speeding now? What do you suggest we live in a lawless society? Complete chaos?

 

And were those votes that he wanted to find legal votes?

 

Just a couple miles over the speed limit folks. Nothing to see here.

 

what is it with maga always making “predictions”. They keep missing.

 

Well, yes. That’s the way justice has been set up forever. A few miles over is illegal. Significantly over the limit will result in significant more penalties. And there are other considerations. Was it thru a construction site or school zone. Did it put someone at risk.

 

Thank you.

 

Dan Drezner points to a national security risk by analogy to Israel from DT's obsession with fascism and retribution:

Israel is paying a steep price for its national security dysfunction right now in the form of hundreds dead, a planned siege of Gaza and an imminent ground invasion involving hundreds of thousands of Israeli soldiers that may accomplish little more than producing more bloodshed and grievance.

Here’s my question: Is Israel a harbinger for the United States? Are we getting a sneak preview of what will happen if Republicans succeed in their effort to exercise more control over the national security bureaucracy?

After losing the election in November 2020, Trump fired or demanded the resignation of several political appointees on his foreign policy team because of a perceived lack of personal loyalty. He replaced them with acting officials who had minimal qualifications for their jobs beyond abject fealty to Trump.




Imagine, for example, what a second Trump term would actually look like. If he only appoints toadies to cabinet-level positions, there would be no adults in the room. His planned jihad against the permanent bureaucracy would trigger an exodus of the best, most independent diplomats, general officers and intelligence analysts. The ability of Trump’s weakened administrative state to accurately assess or respond to any national security threat would be suspect at best and incompetent at worst. The likelihood of a successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil, undeterred Russian aggression in Eastern Europe, or open war in the Pacific Rim would rise exponentially. The U.S. military would be too busy bombing Mexico or governing U.S. cities to respond. As chaotic as Trump’s first term was, his second term could set the world on fire.

Will the United States Be the Next Israel?