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The battle for new college

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by slayerxing, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Dude, make up your mind.

    First it was colleges have always been liberal (or at least treated as liberal) and have not gotten more liberal because they've always been liberal.

    Now it's Republicans used to own college grads, they don't anymore, so Republicans failed when they controlled education, now liberals control education. So I guess you can say, "colleges became more liberal?":rolleyes:
     
  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    For the most part, humanity didn't advance over hundreds or thousands of years. Christianity was a big set back for advancement too, and they certainly crapped on things from the past, anything written by those heathen Greeks and Romans.
     
  3. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Ok well at least interesting discussion although I disagree with comparing civil rights legislation to what desantis is doing. Very different processes behind it with very different goals. Especially because civil rights legislation didn’t mandate what could be taught or how faculty were hired outside of outlawing discriminatory hiring practices.
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I used the term "radical" not liberal, you need to make up your mind. "Radicalism" and liberal dont mean the same thing, and they are quite oppositional in many cases.
     
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  5. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes they did, it was just slow until it wasn't anymore thanks to good old job specialization, capitalism, and innovation. ;)
     
  6. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I would add that the 50 year progression from the civil rights movement was a natural progression where higher Ed mirrored societies changes and it was a slow evolution.

    what is happening now is a sharp adjustment by people who don’t fully understand what they are doing and much of it is to score political points and to force people to accept their world view.
    Very different.
     
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  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I'm not familiar with their rhetoric on this issue, but they 100% view it that way. In their mind they are disaffected minorities on campus, they want their affirmative action in the name of diversity and equality.
     
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  8. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe go to a thread with a less complex topic where posting just pictures is sufficient.
     
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  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Yes, and capitalism has also been more successful at annihilating traditional ideas than any leftist program ever devised
     
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  10. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Students enforce civil rights legislation through lawsuits. The interpretation of the rules are broadened to the point that they are interpreted to value "equity," not really "equality." Universities try and get ahead of the curve because they don't want to bite the hands that feed them (government in terms of money, funding, grants, and students in terms of enrollment, tuition, and donations). Over time, each subsequent administration becomes more favorable towards these things to the point of outright advocacy in its favor to the point where almost all major universities in America are run by incredibly liberal people. Those liberal administrations create or grow equity-based offices, courses of study, and research initiatives run by like-minded people. Eventually, we come to where we are now where liberal policy and equity-based values are so tethered to academia, any opposition to these sorts of things are characterized by our so-called "elites" as "ignorant" and "anti-academic."
     
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  12. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Not just in Florida. Faculty is "left of center" if they hold intellectually defensible opinions. These people don't understand how misguided their conception of objective truth is


     
  13. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Even if that was exactly what was happening, which it isn’t it’s far to simplistic and reductive, it doesn’t justify what desantis is doing.
     
  14. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I want to also point out how simplistic and reductive the whole argument is about how universities are liberal indoctrination camps. Every college is sooooo different. College of agriculture and college of business are pretty damn conservative, for example. Liberal arts and education tends to be more liberal. Med school and vet school pretty split. These institutions are far more complex and nuanced than conservative bad liberal good. In fact those discussions hardly ever explicitly happen because it’s not a part of the mission.
     
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  15. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    We just don't want an almost culturally-mandated step in the development of a young man or woman to be indoctrination institutions.

    Now, I don't think we should treat colleges that way as a culture, but the the college market is so oversaturated, employers are requiring college degrees for jobs that by no means require college degrees, many of which would offer a superior outcome substituting 4-year apprenticeships for college degrees. But hey, I don't call the shots.
     
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  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Its pretty crazy since most of the high profile lawsuits are geared toward elite universities, and usually involve admissions. Bakke goes back to what, 1978? That was the first blow to affirmative action and there have been any number since since quotas were called unconstitutional, and its basically going to be eliminated entirely pretty soon. Its like totally ignoring the history and success of the conservative legal movement since the 70s lol.
     
  17. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    lol no.

    Business is conservative relative to liberal arts. They're certainly not communists over there, but that's not exactly saying much. :D

    That would be like saying Hillary is conservative because she believes in capitalism with an anchor.

    I would say med school and vet school is apolitical without considering the current interpretation of Title IX and DEI initiatives. Here's the thing, we have to consider those things. Ask any of these institutions and they'll all tell you they're a huge deal.
     
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  18. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Universities don’t set culture or policy they respond to it. That’s the other thing. They also do t really influence student positions all that much they tend to make liberals more liberal and conservatives more conservative. All the data I’ve seen indicates they don’t change a lot of minds it’s just that more liberal people tend to go to school in the first place.
     
  19. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    A huge part of political battles is winning over the unopinionated, making them feel good about themselves, and convincing them that the other side is uneducated, ignorant, and hates you.

    Democrats are masterful at selling that message to young people.
     
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  20. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    What is sad to me is that conservative politicians have successfully weaponized their base against higher Ed to such an extent that they are now ok with big gov manipulation. Like it’s justified.
     
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