Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

That 2003 “Swindle in the Swamp” ACC Officials Crew.

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by RayGator, Nov 19, 2023.

  1. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    Who says they’d want our corrupt refs?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. MCB51

    MCB51 Moderator

    16,058
    10,706
    3,148
    Nov 23, 2015
    FL
    I was there for this game-was so angry -couldn't believe all the bogus calls-
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

    5,563
    1,256
    2,143
    Apr 19, 2007
    Sadly, that is what we are looking at in our current NCAAF universe. Its a millions of $$ loss if your team loses to their OOC annual rival and doesn't make the playoff because of it. Referees absolutely should have no conference ties and probably should have their assignments kept secret from the media until they show up on the field on Sat to reduce the chance of palms being greased.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. eightiesgator

    eightiesgator GC Hall of Fame

    1,058
    309
    1,883
    Oct 16, 2017
    We had no game since that could compare to the corruption of The Swindle. Even most (not all) of the rabid Zook haters had to acknowledge that that game was stolen. The closest comparison was the Tennessee game the following year, called The Robbery At Rocky Top...

    Officials are inept, regardless of conference, but passionate fans only see the missed or bad calls that hurt their team. They rarely say things about the bad or missed calls that hurt the other team ("Yeah, we lucked out with that one."). The other team could have 18 penalties, but someone would say, "Yeah, but those penalties didn't hurt them because (what excuse)."

    We have replay and reviews now, something we didn't have in 2003. Had we had them in 2003, we would have blown the Noles out of the Swamp...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Distant Gator

    Distant Gator GC Hall of Fame

    5,282
    707
    478
    Apr 9, 2007
    Upstate, SC
    I was actually going to start a thread today about the Swindle... But I'll add on to this one...

    Some younger Gators, or ones who didn't experience it, may hear complaining about the Swindle and chalk it up to typical complaining by a fanbase after a loss.
    That is understandable- EVERY fanbase complains about biased officiating against them, while ignoring calls that go their way.
    In truth there are 50/50 calls that go the other way in every game, and sometimes refs just miss a call or 2.
    That's life. That's football. Refs are human.

    But let me say this in the strongest terms possible..
    The Swindle was not this...It was an outright orchestrated robbery.

    I'll use some bullet points for easier reading...
    • The ACC was worried about keeping their auto BCS bowl berth. If FSU had lost this game and finished the year unranked, it could have been in jeopardy.
    • Bobby Bowden had blackballed a ref already that year for making a call against his team. (In the Clemson game.) The ACC refs were afraid of him. (Rightfully so.)
    • The ACC crew listed above was their top crew. These guys knew what they were doing. This was not incompetence.
    • The game was strange. There were a number of both bad and outright weird calls in FSU's favor.
    • Those calls began w/ the opening kick and continued until FSU took a 17-6 lead early 2nd quarter, then mysteriously stopped.
    • Then they re-started again after we took the lead in the 3rd quarter. Got that- they started, stopped, then re-started.
    • They continued the rest of the game, until the Crims won at the end.
    • There was precedent for the Swindle. ACC refs also helped ACC teams in other games that year. (One in Arizona, Clemson vs Marshall I think also.)
    • The national outcry was immense. Even the unbiased commentators had to admit this stunk.
    • IMO it was a big reason we got replay review for the 05 season.
    Again, I get that all fans complain about officiating, and they are right- about one call here or there. It happens.

    But this was not that. This was bad.
    I can promise you a guy like Foley wouldn't have barred the ACC refs from our field for many years for no reason, or just 1-2 calls.
    (He was too image conscious.)

    So yes- I'm disappointed that Stricklin has changed that stance, and I can only conclude Stricklin wasn't aware how serious the Swindle was.
    Younger fans need to know, because I promise those ACC refs will do it again.
     
    • Agree x 6
    • Winner x 6
    • Like x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
    • Best Post Ever x 1
  6. Distant Gator

    Distant Gator GC Hall of Fame

    5,282
    707
    478
    Apr 9, 2007
    Upstate, SC
    Way back when another Gator poster summarized the national media reaction after the Swindle.
    I copied and pasted it and kept it in my email file.
    Here it is, but again, credit should go to another GC poster..

    Eddie Pells, AP, USA Today and others (2 articles): He refers to six key calls, ranging from questionable to "awful", and points out that they all went against the Gators. In his second article, he says that, normally, tough calls even out over the course of the game, but in this game all six went against the Gators. He mentions that the "worst" calls include the fumble on the opening kick-off, the so-called Fason fumble and the Washington fumble.

    Dennis Dodd, CBS Sportsline.com: He says that the game featured the "officials gagging" and says that observers counted five plays that involved fumbles that "weren't called correctly". He thinks this was a case of incompetence rather than bias and calls for instant replay.

    Mike Lopresti, USA Today: He compares the game to a bank robbery.

    Matthew Zemek of CollegeFootballNews.com: He says that Florida "witnessed highway robbery by a bunch of guys wearing the prison bars". He calls for instant replay, saying that instant replay would have overturned the so-called Fason fumble.

    Game Recap, CollegeFootballNews.com: Recap says that the game "will be remembered for some horrendous calls from the officials making the wrong call on several plays that would've turned the tide of the game, mostly for Florida." The Recap later says that "Gator fans will complain, and rightly so, that the team got hosed by bad play call after bad play call . . . "

    Pete Futiak, CollegeFootballNews.com: Regarding the weekend games, he says: "The disappointment was the officiating in the Florida State-Florida game. This was one of the best games of the season that will be remembered as much for the missed calls as for the brilliant final drive by Chris Rix."

    Who's Hot, Who's Not, CollegeFootballNews.com: Under Who's Not: "Officials in the Florida State-Florida game. There's always the adage that officials don't win or lose games, but Florida Gator fans might want to disagree after several badly missed fumble calls, highlighted by a down Ciatrick Fason fumble that was returned for an FSU score by Pat Watkins. Florida would have won going away if at least two of the calls had gone its way . . ."

    Dan Shanoff, The Daily Quickie, ESPN Page2: "For instant replay. Atrociously one-sided officiating in Florida State's undeserved win over Florida single-handedly convinced me that college football needs a limited form of instant replay."

    Mock Play-Off, ESPN Page2: Comment regarding FSU vs. Kansas State: "The 'Noles better bring their hometown ACC crew of refs from the Florida game; after a mediocre (by FSU standards) year, they'll need it."

    Kirk Herbstreet, ESPN.com: After a question during a Chat session, he says: "Every national analyst and talking head from one time to another has had an opinion about how horribly officiated that game was. We can't go back and change the 5 or 6 blown calls that affected the outcome of that game. I said after the game Sat. night that was the best game in college football this year, but unfortunately it was also the worst officiated game I have seen all year. I don't know if I can ever recall so many game-changing blown calls. If you are a Florida fan, I feel for you .. but at this point, I don't know if anything can be done."

    Stewart Mandel, SI.com: Lists FSU as his Team of the Week, but notes that they "got a little help from the refs". Lists FSU vs UF as the Game of the Week and says: "And, of course, the game wouldn't have been complete without some extra story lines, mainly several blown calls on fumbles that all went against the Gators, and a postgame brawl . . ." In his Closing Thought, he devotes four paragraphs to calling for instant replay. Here are his 2nd and 3rd paragraphs: "However, the officiating in Saturday's Florida State-Florida game was so overwhelmingly bad, so costly to one of the participants, that I can't help but rethink my stance. Normally bad calls have a way of evening themselves out over the course of a contest, but not this time. Not to take anything away from the Seminoles' effort, especially since Florida still had every opportunity to win the game, but the Gators did get severely screwed right from the opening kickoff, when Florida's Dallas Baker clearly stripped FSU return man Antonio Cromartie, only to have the officials rule Cromartie was down. If it had stopped there, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But, no, the hits kept coming for poor Florida. Like the 'Noles tying the score late in the third quarter on a 25-yard fumble return that wasn't a fumble because Gators running back Ciatrick Fason had hit the ground about a full second earlier. Or Gators linebacker Channing Crowder emerging from the pile with a Leon Washington fumble, stopping an FSU drive at the Florida 3, only to have the refs credit Washington with retaining it."

    Terry Bowden, ESPN.com: He refers to "questionable calls" and says that "the biggest story in this game has become the officiating. It seemed that every play involving a turnover featured a call that went against the Gators, from an FSU fumble on the opening kickoff that was ruled down to another on the goal line that was ruled recovered by running back Leon Washington. There was also some question about Florida fumble was also returned for a touchdown, and with ACC officials working the game you can imagine how enraged the Gator nation is." He then spends the rest of the column doing damage control for the ACC and FSU. He actually praises the ACC officials. His main point is that he thinks "it is ridiculous to assume they would deliberately favor one team".
    It's noteworthy that he never says what he thought of the officiating himself.

    Matt Hayes, the Sporting News: He says it time to quit worrying about tradition and start using instant replay in college football. He says: "It's about getting it right when one call can be the difference between a BCS bowl and a trip to San Antonio. It's about putting the game in the hands of players and coaches, not officials." He then reviews initial steps by the Big 10 to request a waiver to allow instant replay. He points out that many dollars are at stake in these games and then ends the article this way: "Either pay up now, or pay later like Florida, which watched officials blow at least four fumble calls in a last-minute loss to Florida State. With a win over the Seminoles, the Gators would have gone to the Capital One Bowl ($5.1 million payout) instead of the Outback Bowl ($2.65 million)."

    Joey Johnston, NBCSports.com: Under Game of the Year, he says: "This game may be best remembered for questionable officiating (the ACC crew seemed to miss six calls on fumbles or non-fumbles, all going against the Gators) and an ugly postgame brawl at midfield (the Seminoles broke out a Gator-head, then taunted their opponents by dancing on the midfield "F' logo in Gainesville)."

    MSNBC staff: In a column titled, Ask the College Football Expert, there is a question and response about the UF/FSU game. I'll copied the question and first paragraph of the response for brevity: "Q: In light of the poor officiating in the Florida State-Florida game, why aren’t crews from neutral conferences regularly used in non-conferences games, especially the marquee ones? — From Don in Denver A: Good question, Don. Just to refresh everyone’s memory, the Florida State-Florida game in Gainesville employed ACC officials (from the conference of visiting FSU) as per the contract agreed upon by both schools. You’d like to think there’s impartiality, but such sensibilities often are washed away in a fiery rivalry like FSU-Florida. All the questionable calls (involving fumbles or non-fumbles) went against Florida. After a while, you had to scratch your head."
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 4
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  7. denny_crane

    denny_crane All American

    480
    136
    1,863
    Apr 14, 2007
    Screenshot_20231120_102240_Chrome.jpg
    Box score from last year. Yet, even though they won, delusionole fans used the refs as an excuse as to why they didn't win by more. Even though UF was penalized for 53 more yards.
     
  8. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    3,515
    755
    2,088
    Apr 24, 2007
    Thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. insuragator

    insuragator VIP Member

    18,412
    462
    613
    Apr 3, 2007
    And they will do it Saturday to protect their shot at the playoffs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    22,327
    1,287
    2,008
    Apr 3, 2007
    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there have been 4 games where an unranked team defeated a ranked team in this series:

    1971: FLORIDA 17, #19 SWAC 15 (GAINESVILLE)
    1972: FLORIDA 42, #13 SWAC 13 (Clowntown)
    1982: FLORIDA 13, #15 SWAC 10 (Clowntown)
    2004: FLORIDA 20, #10 SWAC 13 (Clowntown)

    FLORIDA is 13-0 as the ranked team vs. an unranked SWAC.
    FLORIDA is 4-10 as the unranked team vs. a ranked SWAC.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. eightiesgator

    eightiesgator GC Hall of Fame

    1,058
    309
    1,883
    Oct 16, 2017
    You beat me to it...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. eightiesgator

    eightiesgator GC Hall of Fame

    1,058
    309
    1,883
    Oct 16, 2017
    Can't happen today, unless the replay and review officials are corrupt as well. It was this game (among some others) that forced CFB to go to replay and review. Everyone is now watching...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  13. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

    19,677
    1,565
    1,513
    Apr 8, 2007
    Said it before. Worst officiated game that I have ever watched in any sport at any level and without revealing my exact age I remember when Ray Graves was the Gator head coach and Steve Spurrier was a sophomore.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  14. LakeGator

    LakeGator Mostly Harmless Moderator VIP Member

    4,172
    521
    1,888
    Apr 3, 2007
    Temple Terrace
    I am quite sure this was posted by @rtgator .

    There is a huge amount of money that would be lost if the SWAC don't win in convincing fashion. The only way the SWAC will get into the playoffs is to dominate in their last 2 games. But we know, the nice ACC officials would not cheat - AGAIN.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  15. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

    5,563
    1,256
    2,143
    Apr 19, 2007
    Yep, via a lot of non-reviewable phantom flags and of course, no-calls.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

    5,563
    1,256
    2,143
    Apr 19, 2007
    Of course it can....drive-killing holding calls are easy to manufacture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    well duh!
     
  18. ApexNC

    ApexNC GC Hall of Fame

    13,304
    16,203
    3,173
    Apr 8, 2007
    NC
    I think that game is one of the reasons we eventually got replay in college football
     
  19. eightiesgator

    eightiesgator GC Hall of Fame

    1,058
    309
    1,883
    Oct 16, 2017
    Ahhh, I get it now. Everyone is corrupt, and they are all conspiring against the poor, honest Gators...

    It hasn't happened since 2003. That's a generation ago...
     
  20. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    They have a track record of doing this. The next game is the perfect scenario for them to do it again — national championship hopes for ref$u on the line - all they gotta do is win their last game and only Florida stands in their way for future big paydays. What makes you think it won’t happen?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2